"Green with Loyalist Envy" Topic

Do we know what shade of green the loyalist line and militia units were clothed in as well as the British Legion and Queens Rangers?

Were all the units in different shades of green or was the fabric from the same stock? And if from the same stock, was it a dark but true green (Billiard table green) or a black green like the 95th rifles later used?

I use hunter green for pretty much all of mine. Of course the sun fades it. But if most Loyalist units were raised and equipped in New York, I suppose a common source is likely? Good question.

Cut yourself some slack, MiniPigs. Green was a notoriously tricky and not very colorfast vegetable dye. The Russians--and British rifle units--dyed until almost black, and it sort of faded through green, ending up as a greenish yellow. I'd say suit yourself.

I'd also keep in mind that there wasn't much of a North American textile industry, and that "raised in New York" includes both units cooped up in NYC and Long Island and upstate units whose supply chain ran to Canada. I'd bet on both wearing clothing which came out of mills in Lancashire. So (a) probably the same fabric and dye, but (b) drastic differences over time.

A lot of Loyalist units also ended up in red anyway, so…

Ee, lad. Woolen cloth would have been Yorkshire, tha knows. Lancashire, sithee, was more cotton, like.

One of the reasons Simcoe states for (sucessfully) retaining the green jackets for the 1st American Reg't, The Queens Rangers, was that by fall it faded out to a brown and blended in nicely with the fall foliage. After 1779 the majority, but not all, loyalist units were wearing red.

But for wargaming puirposes, do gamers really prefer red loyalist coated units over green ones? I would imagine that even for the Loyalist units that were more like line units, the green coats are so iconic and easier to identify on tabletop.

It depends on if you are recreating a specific campaign I guess. According to Todd Braisted, many Loyalist regiments were simply buying clothing from regular regiments later in the war.

So if I'm doing Oriskany, yes they're wearing green.

The only Loyalists I have in a very large British force (1000+ figures) is QR and Brit Legion. Oh, and a few Butler Rangers. But if I need/want Loyalists in red coats, I'll simply do a command stand and use existing troops with it.

1000 British figures Doc? How many figures per battalion?

Do you play campaign games as well as scenarios?

What's the current fashion for depicting Loyalists on tabletop, are they presented as more spit and polish than the British regulars or a mixed bag or in rags?

They were supplied on the same schedule as the regulars.

I don't know what the current fashion is. For me the differences between my British regular regiments and my Loyalist regular regiments are almost unrecognizable, and are unlikely to be continued. The bigger difference in my army will be between different loyalist units and more especially between different types of loyalist units. Its still a work in progress though, so plans may change.

It's interesting that quite a few here prefer their loyalists in red rather than green when the green jackets are both more iconic and differentiable on tabletop.

I don't see much point in doing Loyalist regiments indistinguishable from british. So I agree with Bill N and Minipigs.

Minipigs, I use battalions of 36. One command stand of 4 and 8 company stands. If I need to do a bigger battle I might reduce a battalion to 7 stands or even to 5 stands, to gain more table space. But I have between 25 and 30 battalions for each side. Plus cavalry and artillery etc. I will add that my Revos go back to my first purchase of Jack Scrubys in 1960, and some of those (Glovers Marbleheaders) are still doing duty mixed with more recent minis.

I bought a lot of Hinchliffe in the 1980s, and a LOT of Old Glory in the 90s. Today I am painting Fife and Drum and Perrys and some others. Being stuck at home has been great for my painting; I've done a good many 100s of minis in the past 2 months. Have to play solo or by email, though.

36 man battalions in AWI? What rules do you use?

Sounds an impressive collection. You painted these all or almost all yourself?

I use my own rules, combining elements I like in others. Simultaneous movement in phases, similar to JOHNNY REB. Some rules on movement and organization from LOOSE FILES AND AMERICAN SCRAMBLE. Each battalion includes one stand whose 4 figures are individually based on magnets, so I can reduce strength by single figures. (When 4 are lost, another stand is removed and replaced by the four single figs stand.)

My brother and son have both painted some units (as presents for me at Xmas or birthdays) and I have done two big (300+ minis) orders with Fernando. But I've painted probably 60% of the collection. Again, it has been a 60 year project!

It is a 1:10 ratio, as 360 for a battalion seems to be pretty average. I'm refighting Guilford right now, solo, and adjust the number of stands to reflect known strength. If i were doing, say, Monmouth or Germantown etc, I'd want to go to 1:20 or 1:30 or such.

I also have several dozen casualty fiures for each side, and as long as they last, whenever a whole stand is removed I put down one casualty fig at the spot. No play effect but I think it looks cool. And I do a fair bit of skirmish 1:1 gaming, where casualty markers are definitely needed (as retrieving a casualty or his weapon may be important). (Dead horses, too: I was fortunate to pick up two bags of OG Custer's Last Stand, cheap, each having 10 dead horses.)

When I was teaching I had an active club who played a lot of big battles, and my brother enjoys playing when we are together (he is in Texas and I am in Tennessee.) But these days, and even before the plague, I mostly play solo, and enjoy the spectacle as much or more as the game.

Interesting lineage to your collection doc mcb.

Does anyone know the origin of why Loyalists were outfitted in green? I see that there was an ultimate decision to clothe them in red but what was the reasoning behind the initial green clothing?

I prefer to outfit my loyalists in green for the simple reason that it adds more color to a wonderfully colorful period. It might not be accurate but it is what I like and they are Tommy's toys.