Tango01 | 04 Apr 2020 12:59 p.m. PST |
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Tango01 | 04 Apr 2020 12:59 p.m. PST |
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Legion 4 | 04 Apr 2020 1:53 p.m. PST |
Yes, they choose who to support poorly … And many of them died because of it. |
Tango01 | 05 Apr 2020 4:08 p.m. PST |
Many…?… they all died… Amicalement Armand |
Simo Hayha | 05 Apr 2020 7:25 p.m. PST |
they didn't all die. did you even watch the video before you jubilantly posted it? |
Legion 4 | 06 Apr 2020 8:28 a.m. PST |
They didn't all die … but many did … |
Mark 1 | 07 Apr 2020 11:35 a.m. PST |
Yes, they choose who to support poorly … And many of them died because of it. Indeed. It is sometimes hard to understand, but the choice was not always clear at the time. Consider the choices we make in our current time about which political directions / parties / candidates / causes we choose to support or oppose. From the video:
Some had been members of pre-war far-right political parties that admired Hitler and Mussolini. Some hated communism more than German occupation, and were prepared to take up arms in what they saw as a Europe-wide crusade against Bolshevism. Some were anti-semites, some were opportunists. Pause for a moment to consider whom those categories might fit today. Missing from that list, though, is probably a major category / perspective. This one I derive from my reading and re-reading of Guy Sajer's "The Forgotten Soldier", as well as the follow-up online discourse in multiple fora of whether that was a legitimate or contrived personal account, including quotes of interviews with Sajer during the online debates as to his "veracity". The category is simply this: adolescent males who like uniforms and parades, who perhaps seek an escape from the social confines of family in small tight-knit communities (with isolation of the family only increasing during occupation), and who may crave a sense of "belonging" to something larger than themselves. I would wager that this category, with these motivations, probably drove the largest portion of ongoing (rather than initial surge) recruits. The SS would end up with units of Norwegians, Danes, Dutch, Belgians, Estonians, Latvians and Croatians -- to mention just a few -- and even a tiny British unit recruited from PoW camps. Restless young men are the greatest and most easily motivated resource for "causes", regardless of whether the leadership has good or evil intent. -Mark (aka: Mk 1) |
Legion 4 | 08 Apr 2020 11:06 a.m. PST |
Restless young men are the greatest and most easily motivated resource for "causes", regardless of whether the leadership has good or evil intent. Very true … and we see this throughout history. In many cases they make very good soldiers. |
mkenny | 09 Apr 2020 2:46 a.m. PST |
The SS would end up with units of Norwegians, Danes, Dutch, Belgians, Estonians, Latvians and Croatians -- to mention just a few -- and even a tiny British unit recruited from PoW camps. You have to admire the way believers haunt the internet asking questions like 'how many eskimos served in the SS' so they can add another nation to the list of 'Armies' who served in the SS which they believe was the first 'NATO'. All you have to do to burst this bubble is ask then to research the make-up of the Allied Army in Italy to see just what a real multi-Nation Alliance looks like. |
mkenny | 09 Apr 2020 2:53 a.m. PST |
did you even watch the video before you jubilantly posted it? The fact it is a Mark Felton film is a clear warning it is most likely a badly-researched collection of 'facts' obtained from Google. |
Blutarski | 09 Apr 2020 10:12 a.m. PST |
Take it from mkenny, ladies and gentlemen. Every single non-German who volunteered to fight on the German side by joining the SS (AIUI, the only German military service formally open to them) knew about the plans for the holocaust and wanted to work in the concentration camps. No one joined because he was an ardent anti-Bolshevist; no one joined because he supported Fascism as a socio-political theory. And anyone who claimed to have done so was lying to cover up his secret concentration camp fantasies ….. What foolishness. B |
mkenny | 09 Apr 2020 12:35 p.m. PST |
Every single non-German who volunteered to fight on the German side by joining the SS ……… joined a criminal organisation. That is a fact. |
Blutarski | 09 Apr 2020 1:34 p.m. PST |
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Legion 4 | 10 Apr 2020 9:18 a.m. PST |
The SS certainly had a record to back the up … |
Richard Baber | 10 Apr 2020 12:32 p.m. PST |
Slightly off topic because they belonged to a neutral country – the Spanish volunteers who fought in Berlin with Charlemagne joined the SS after Spain withdrew the Blue Division (under Allied pressure). The only way those Spanish who wish to continue their – crusade against the Reds was to join the SS, no other option was available. |
Legion 4 | 10 Apr 2020 3:59 p.m. PST |
Also note some Spanish from the Blue Div stayed after Franco formerly withdrew the Div. They fought along side the Germans as part of a German Div. And yes, they were stanch anti-Reds. |
TacticalPainter01 | 11 Apr 2020 1:44 a.m. PST |
Being ‘anti-red' is okay with me, but signing up for a club that thinks the only way to stop it is a war of racial annihilation in the most ugly, obscene way is welcome to whatever fate befalls them. Criminal organisation? That's being kind. |
Legion 4 | 11 Apr 2020 6:27 a.m. PST |
I agree … they really literally made deal with Devil … |
crazycaptain | 12 Apr 2020 3:41 p.m. PST |
"The fact it is a Mark Felton film is a clear warning it is most likely a badly-researched collection of 'facts' obtained from Google." Is Mark Felton an unreliable source? Why? |
mkenny | 12 Apr 2020 11:35 p.m. PST |
"The fact it is a Mark Felton film is a clear warning it is most likely a badly-researched collection of 'facts' obtained from Google." Is Mark Felton an unreliable source? Why? It says why in my original quote. He does the most basic research (Google) and then knocks up a video with mostly random bits of film. If the viewer knows little or nothing about the subject then how can they tell? All Felton has done is assume the mantle of the old History Channel films that were out on video in the 1990s. He is making films that appeal to the low information crowd and does not care because all he is after is 'views' and 'likes'. He may get some facts right but that is a combination of the odd good source he finds on Google and the 'stopped clock' principle. |
deephorse | 13 Apr 2020 8:58 a.m. PST |
At least I can 'Google' Mark Felton, find out more about him and decide for myself whether or not to trust what he says. As for mkenny, who on earth is he/she, and why should I place any faith in what they write? |
mkenny | 13 Apr 2020 9:32 a.m. PST |
At least I can 'Google' Mark Felton Indeed you can. And once you become, like Mark, a Google expert you can spam Youtube with superficial garbage. |
Blutarski | 13 Apr 2020 12:28 p.m. PST |
For the sake of interest, I just googled "Mark Felton". Here is what I found: link markfelton.co.uk A quick review of the above sites will go far to validate Mr Felton's qualifications for posting informative WW2 videos on YouTube. B |
mkenny | 13 Apr 2020 2:38 p.m. PST |
Felton appeals to those people who like the old excuses: 213 had the front third of its massive gun blown off by a lucky shot, while SS-Untersturmfuhrer Hantusch's 221 received damage to its reversing mechanism. Even if fuel now reached the battle group, these two tanks were now useless and were abandoned by their crews. Myths that say 2 tanks knocked out (always by 'lucky shots') instead'ran out of fuel' and were 'abandoned'. He also fails badly in his King Tiger film where he tries to be clever by claiming a Museum has put the wrong number on a Tiger and says the Tiger 'blocked the road' and 'was bulldozed off the road which 'snapped off the guns muzzle brake. As the photos show it was not even on the road and it lost the muzzle brake before being pushed over. Just one of a legion of errors in all of his NWE films.
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Blutarski | 13 Apr 2020 3:25 p.m. PST |
Let's leave all the melodramatic prose aside. You are showing two photos of the vehicle in question off the road and lacking its muzzle brake. That is no "proof" whatsoever that said vehicle had not been situated on the road at some point prior to the time these photos were taken, nor are the photos proof that its muzzle brake had been lost prior to it arguably having been pushed off said road. If you have more convincing evidence, please post it. I'm sure we would all be interested to see it. Meanwhile, Doctor Felton (PhD) has had twenty odd volumes on various topics in WW2 history put into print by some very reputable publishing houses. We know nothing about your background. B
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mkenny | 13 Apr 2020 3:35 p.m. PST |
. You are showing two photos of the vehicle in question off the road and lacking its muzzle brake. That is no "proof" whatsoever that said vehicle was not situated on the road prior to the time these photos were taken, or that its muzzle brake had been lost prior to it having been pushed off said road Yes it is. Proof positive that Mark Felton did the most basic research (AKA Google) and he falls flat on his arse when he tried to be clever by saying the museum got the number wrong. Your problem is you do not know the position of the tank when it was recovered. Perhaps this photo (used by Felton in his film) will show how silly it was for you to jump in knowing only half the story. You are as ill-informed as Felton
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mkenny | 13 Apr 2020 3:44 p.m. PST |
Meanwhile, Doctor Felton (PhD) has had twenty odd volumes on various topics in WW2 history put into print by some very reputable publishing houses. Not a patch on Franz Kurowski. He has hundreds of published works and most are works of fiction. Even the German veterans he worships in his books complain about his fabrications. Then there is Ian Baxter link He has dozens of published works and he struggles to distinguish between a Pz IV and a Tiger tank. He is a complete fraud. I can think of dozens of other authors who are as hopeless as felton. |
Blutarski | 13 Apr 2020 4:39 p.m. PST |
You need to do better, mkenny. Lots of bluster and game-playing is all I am seeing so far. Par for your course, unfortunately. Your 3rd photograph shows the tank overturned. This could have occurred at a later point after the tank was initially bulldozed to clear the existing roadway. Where, for example, is the wire fence in the previous two photos? The 3rd photograph also says zero about the circumstances surrounding the loss of the tank's muzzle brake. Spare us the Kurowski comparison – nothing but a strawman misdirection. Considering what a critic you seem to be with respect to the works of others, how many books have you had published "to set the record straight"? Based upon your assertions about the efforts of other authors, the world should arguably be beating a path to your door. But I somehow doubt that is in the cards for you. B |
mkenny | 13 Apr 2020 8:05 p.m. PST |
Your 3rd photograph shows the tank overturned. This could have occurred at a later point after the tank was initially bulldozed to clear the existing roadway. Where, for example, is the wire fence in the previous two photos? Err 'not there? The tank was left in this position on September 4th 1944 and was not recovered until December. It would be safe to assume the farmer wanted to keep his livestock in the field and built a new fence around the tank to replace the one flattened when it was rolled over. If you now want to tie yourself in knots and claim the TII was bulldozed twice-one to move it to the side of the road then again later to tip it into the field then continue digging………. |
mkenny | 13 Apr 2020 8:22 p.m. PST |
Based upon your assertions about the efforts of other authors, the world should arguably be beating a path to your door. But I somehow doubt that is in the cards for you. I have been contacted by many authors and had at least 2 offers to publish but I prefer to assemble the information and let others polish and hone it. Felton has been caught out making things up here. I know a lot about this Tiger because I first went looking for information about it back in the 1990s. I managed to track down some original documentation in the REME Museum in the UK 20 years back and you can find one of my earliest reference to it here in 2002 link
I found several previously unknown pics of two TII recoveries and a technical report on the brand new trailer they used to recover the two. It was developed to move the Tortoise tank and this recovery was used an ideal way to test how good it was. The photo of the Tiger still on the verge with the 2 US Soldiers on it was posted on a forum back in October 2004 as an unidentified tank and I immediately recognised it and informed the poster what an important photo he had. Felton has just googled the Tiger II and not fully understood the info he found. I know this Tiger very well because I was one of the people who did original research on it and assembled the info that Felton is using.
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