"Fusilier officer coats in the Peninsular War?" Topic
18 Posts
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Garde de Paris | 04 Apr 2020 10:10 a.m. PST |
I fear I have made a major mistake in using Victrix plastic 28mm British officer figures; long-tailed coats; fore-and-aft chapeau. At some point, Fusilier officers wore a short-tailed coat, and the British sergeant figure by Victrix should work well, with some strapping and the bullet pouch cut away. In the short-tailed coat, would they have worn a stovepipe shako, or the fore-and-aft? Should I do them from the sergeant figure for the action at Albuera where the Fusilier brigade attacked through French cavalry? GdeP |
Garde de Paris | 04 Apr 2020 10:21 a.m. PST |
Found two opposite illustrations on the internet. One shows company officer in long-tailed coat, fore-and-aft, and dark blue breeches with boots up to below the knee for the 23rd. But an illustration of the 7th Foot, Royal Fusiliers, shows the officer in short-tailed coat. Regimental peculiarities, or artist license? link GdeP |
Nine pound round | 04 Apr 2020 11:10 a.m. PST |
Carl Franklin's "British Napoleonic Uniforms" shows short-tailed dress and undress uniforms for officers of the 7th, 21st and 23rd for various timeframes- it was certainly in general use by 1812, but they probably all discarded the long-tailed coats at slightly different points (then, as now, officers in English-speaking armies buy their own uniforms, and there is always some flexibility in wearing out the old patterns). There were a lot of changes to the clothing regulations in 1796-7, and somewhere in there, the tails became shorter for most, but not all units and occasions (C Hamilton Smith, a contemporary painter, shows long tails on Guards officers' dress uniform in 1812 or thereabouts). |
Nine pound round | 04 Apr 2020 12:11 p.m. PST |
The chapeaux don't seem to have vanished quickly, although I can recall reading somewhere that when the leader of a storming party at one of the sieges in the 1812-13 timeframe (an officer of the 4th Foot) wore a chapeau with a white feather as an identifying distinction, it was already unusual for junior officers. |
Artilleryman | 04 Apr 2020 3:16 p.m. PST |
Before 1812, regulations had long-tailed coats for officers of line and fusilier regiments and they would also have worn the cocked hat. Light infantry regiment officers wore the short-tailed coat and the cap or shako, a style copied by the officers in the light companies of the line regiments. The new regulations for 1812 prescribed the short-tailed coat for all officers of infantry and the adoption of a new pattern of cap which became known as the 'Belgic' shako. New evidence suggests that this headgear was also worn by the Rifles and Light Infantry contrary to what was previously believed. 1813 would have been a period of transition but by early 1814 it is probable that most officers would have adopted the new style. Hope that helps. |
Nine pound round | 05 Apr 2020 9:25 a.m. PST |
Franklin quotes a 1797 order for officers to adopt the short coat for undress but retain the longer coat for full dress, and notes that a December, 1811 order repeated the prescription for undress and extends it to full dress. Interestingly, his plates (which seem to come from contemporary tailors' records) for the three fusilier regiments show officers' short-tailed undress coats as the pattern from as early as 1798 (for the 21st), slightly later for the others (1805 for the 23rd, but no certain start date for undress for the 7th). He shows the 21st and 23rd as retaining long-tailed coats for full dress through 1812. I would tend to think short-tailed coat wear probably started in the field well before Albuera, but I think there is still reason to believe that some of them went into the field in long-tailed coats, either dress or undress. |
Garde de Paris | 05 Apr 2020 9:48 a.m. PST |
Thanks, all. To avoid replacement, I may keep them with long-tailed coats, but may repaint the breeches of the officer with the regimental colour from white to dark blue. My preference is to have the officer with the King's Colours of all my British units wearing dark blue breeches; and the officer with the regimental colour wearing white (or buff for buff-faced regiments). I wonder if officers of Royal regiments all wore dark blue. As an aside, may I assume that sergeants all carried the pike; kurzgewehr; halberd; whatever, except for light company sergeants with the musket? GdeP |
Nine pound round | 05 Apr 2020 10:25 a.m. PST |
You could do that- the British Army of that era tended to look with a tolerant eye on unofficial uniform variations among officers, especially in the field. Official trouser/breeches color was always white for the more formal dress orders, with grey becoming authorized later in the period, but I don't think anyone could guarantee that hues of blue or brown were never worn. Some accounts suggest that regiments that had been in the field for long periods were uniform only in their arms and accoutrements, with everything else being whatever was available. The 7th and 23rd in particular spent a long time in the Peninsula, so I would guess that you could excuse almost any variation you wanted to paint for the brigade at Albuera. As an aside, the blue for Royal regiments would have applied to the facings (colors and cuffs), rather than the color of the trousers. Drummers colors in Royal regiments weren't reversed; I have found Franklin's book to be hugely useful for the specific details of individual regimental uniforms. |
Artilleryman | 05 Apr 2020 2:40 p.m. PST |
Garde, sergeants who did not carry a long arm (Rifles, light infantry etc.) only carried a pike. The other pole arms such as halberds etc had been discontinued by 1800. |
Major Snort | 05 Apr 2020 2:46 p.m. PST |
Garde de Paris wrote: As an aside, may I assume that sergeants all carried the pike; kurzgewehr; halberd; whatever, except for light company sergeants with the musket? Although I thought that Fusilier sergeants were armed with a pike, or spontoon, based on various secondary sources, it is interesting to look at the Ordnance records of arms issues to various regiments. DeWitt Bailey, in "Small Arms of the British Forces in America", lists the arms issued to the regiments that served in the War of 1812. This list is not confined to the American war, but goes back several years. The Ordnance records made a distinction between "Muskets and Bayonets" and "Sergeant's Fusils". Most regiments were issued only two or three Sergeant's Fusils, which would have been used by the Light Company Sergeants. However, the 7th Fusiliers, in 1814, were issued with 28 Sergeant's Fusils which probably indicates that all their sergeants were issued with firearms rather than spontoons. This issue of arms was a replacement for muskets and fusils that had been worn out in the Peninsular War and 365 muskets and bayonets were issued at the same time. I suppose that it is possible that the sergeants were re-armed specifically for service in America, although other regiments re-issued at the same time and sent to America (apart from Light Infantry regiments) did not receive anywhere near this number of fusils for sergeants. It is also interesting read Sergeant Cooper's account of the Battle of Sorauren. Cooper was a sergeant in the 7th Fusilier Regiment (I don't think he was in the Light Company). He recalls: While I was kneeling and firing, a drill-serjeant named Brooks came and helped me get my cartridges out more quickly. I don't know whether the same applied to other Fusilier regiments, but it is enough for me to question whether Fusilier sergeants were issued with spontoons during the Napoleonic Wars. The Sergeant's Fusil was a shorter and lighter version of the standard India Pattern musket. It was 2" shorter and only 0.65" calibre rather than the standard musket calibre of 0.75". |
Major Snort | 06 Apr 2020 1:43 a.m. PST |
After reading Sergeant Cooper's memoirs again, it does appear he was in the Light Company, so his account of using a firearm at Sorauren is no help here. He mentions another sergeant of his regiment shooting a French soldier at Talavera, but does not state clearly whether he was a light company sergeant or not. |
42flanker | 06 Apr 2020 12:03 p.m. PST |
Blue trousers were being worn by officers in the field as early as 1794 (also by troops in regiments lucky enough to receive clothing sent by public prescription in both blue and brown 'donation' cloth). Regulations issued in 1802 stated: On a March or on Out Duties, Officers are permitted to wear dark Blue Cloth Pantaloons and no other Colour will be permitted." (Carman, W. Y. (1940), ‘Infantry Clothing Regulations, 1802', Journal of the Society of Army Historical Research, vol. XIX, pp. 200– 235) |
42flanker | 06 Apr 2020 1:16 p.m. PST |
See also The standing orders of 7th Regiment of Foot in Halifax note the use of "grey cloth gunmouth trousers". (Percy Sumner, "Standing Orders of the Royal Fusiliers, 1798" Journal of the Society for Army Historical Research Vol 27.) |
Garde de Paris | 08 Apr 2020 8:56 a.m. PST |
What, pray tell, are "gunmouth" trousers? GdeP |
42flanker | 08 Apr 2020 9:25 a.m. PST |
@ G de P i.e. not fastened with buttons down the calf to make 'gaiter trousers' but trousers as we might understand them; two tubes of cloth open at the foot, (that is to say, the ankle). |
Garde de Paris | 08 Apr 2020 12:17 p.m. PST |
Ah, so "gunmouth" is not some fabric manufacturer in the Midlands! Thanks, all! 83 and still learning! GdeP |
AICUSV | 10 Apr 2020 11:29 p.m. PST |
And you thought "gunmouth" was one of the guys that you use to game with. |
Garde de Paris | 11 Apr 2020 4:13 a.m. PST |
I didn't, Reg, but now that you mention it…. GdeP |
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