"Warships in 1588 vs warships in 1805?" Topic
12 Posts
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Bede19002 | 03 Mar 2020 5:38 p.m. PST |
What were the main differences between warships at these two times? How were these differences reflected in the way fleets fought? Also, can you recommend rules suitable for re relating fleet engagements at the time of the Armada? Thanks |
Blutarski | 03 Mar 2020 6:50 p.m. PST |
Neli, Ships of 1588 were at sea less than twenty years after the great Battle of Lepanto. Much progress, as I'm sure you suspect, was made over the next 2+ centuries. I do not consider myself especially knowledgeable about this period, but offer the following from my modest degree of understanding Compared to warships of the Napoleonic period, Armada era ships were generally smaller, with great tumblehome and lofty poop and forecastle to guard against boarding attempts. Gun batteries were primitive and slow firing. These ships were very beamy compared to length, hence they were comparatively slow. I have read claims that they were "unhandy" (i.e. – difficult to maneuver) especialy in beating to windward. John Guilmartin (sadly passed away) wrote extensively on early naval history. I have two of his books and recommend him highly as a competent source. You might do an Amazon search under his name as an author and see if anything fits with your study requirements. Best of luck! B |
Stalkey and Co | 03 Mar 2020 8:16 p.m. PST |
Blutarsky's comment sounds informed to me. I'd try these, but I generally like david manley's approach and level of abstraction. To me, I'd want to fight big fleet actions, but single ship ones. link and hey, they're on sale for $4.81 USD right now! |
Prince Alberts Revenge | 03 Mar 2020 8:21 p.m. PST |
Some aspects that would impact naval battles on the tabletop would include the slow reloading times of larger cannon on board, more smaller artillery pieces to clear enemy decks, the positioning of more artillery in the forecastle and stern areas (as opposed to primarily broadsides), preference for boarding actions, and less ability to give commands by ensign. Because of these, formations like line of battle would be less than ideal in the late 16th century. |
StarCruiser | 03 Mar 2020 8:31 p.m. PST |
As noted above – many ships of this period had guns all 'round instead of focusing on the broadside – since Line of Battle tactics didn't exist yet. This generally meant more of what we would call chasers fore and aft. Like ships of the 17th century (or at least, much of it) they also had a very mixed battery of guns with different weights of shot being mixed on the same deck. Some ships used very primitive gun carriages that didn't really allow for reloading in battle – and some guns were simply stupid big (48 pounders or even larger?!?). This was still a transitional period and navies were often informal affairs using whatever ships they could acquire during war with only a few dedicated warships. Many ships were still designed for "land-combat at sea" as had been tradition since the middle ages. The Dutch and English both started breaking that tradition during the later half of the century with "Race Built" (i.e. cut down, lower ships) fitted with better guns and carriages. |
Stalkey and Co | 03 Mar 2020 9:20 p.m. PST |
Surprisingly… Grand Fleet Actions in the Age of Sail rules extend from 1530 to 1830! And they are also on sale at Wargame Vault for half price or so, $7.66 USD. link |
fantasque | 04 Mar 2020 5:23 a.m. PST |
For books, Peter Padfield's "Tide of Empires" or "Maritime Suptemacy" volumes have excellent, easy to read summaries of the evolution of ship design and tactics during that period. |
SBminisguy | 04 Mar 2020 11:19 a.m. PST |
As pointed out, ship designs were changing a lot -- the English and Dutch started experimenting with race-built ships focused on broadside gunnery with the goal of disabling or sinking their targets. The Spanish were still pretty fixated on close and board tactics, using their guns to disable ships and injure crew to soften them up for boarding. Many of the big guns were also on fixed carriages, they weren't on wheeled trucks, so they had to be reloaded "from the outboard" -- basically crewmen had to sit on the cannon barrel sticking outside the hull of the ship to reload the gun! As you can imagine, that was slow and hard to do in combat, so the English and Dutch often used "mobbing" tactics. Basically the ship version of a "Caracole" of cavalry wheeling in a circle firing and reloading pistols. The Ship would fire broadside, then swing away to reload as the next ship in line did the same. So this was the precursor to Line of Battle tactics, but given the Spanish desire to close -- and the desire by all ship captains to capture prizes for wealth and glory, most of these battles degenerated into a mass melee of ships fighting at close quarters, boarding, etc. |
Vincent the Librarian | 04 Mar 2020 11:22 a.m. PST |
The fighting ships in 1588 were much, much, much smaller than 17th and 18th century. Guns were more used to soften he enemy and then board, than to pound the enemy into surrender. There were no "line" tactics, communication between ships was laughingly not available, besides yelling at each other. |
Bede19002 | 04 Mar 2020 11:23 a.m. PST |
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rmaker | 04 Mar 2020 11:58 a.m. PST |
Equally important, the rigs were less developed and less efficient, meaning, again, slower and more unhandy ships. |
BuckeyeBob | 04 Mar 2020 12:29 p.m. PST |
free set of rules and charts here. Use "main download" button on the right side of page. Rules and everything needed in zip file. link |
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