"The Vietnam War and the Tragedy of Containment" Topic

"Under President Harry Truman, the United States had established a foreign policy doctrine called "containment." Originated by George Kennan, Dean Acheson, and other diplomats and policy advisors, the policy of "containment" aimed not to fight an all out war with the communist Soviet Union, but rather to confine communism and the Soviet Union to their existing boundaries. This doctrine led directly to the Vietnam war. "Containment" was based on several premises:…"
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Amicalement
Armand

As I said on another thread. It really was a proxy war between the 3 super powers … the US, USSR and PRC during the "Cold" War …
And in the Big Picture Communism lost.

And in the Big Picture Communism lost.

Are you linking the fall of the Soviet Union with the US' defeat in Vietnam? If so, I can't see the connection.

I would also have to say the the Communist Chinese, to date, don't seem to have "lost" either.

Given the apocalyptic nature of nuclear warfare, containment seems a fair policy to me, though disastrously applied to Vietnam where ham fisted US diplomacy pushed the Vietnamese communists into the arms of Russia & China.

As you undoubtedly know, at the end of WWII the Viet Minh sought to drive the French out of their country and saw the Americans as being potential anti-colonial allies.

Ho Chi Minh admired the US Declaration of Independence and envisioned creating and implementing a Vietnamese version once they drove out the French.

Ho actually sought US support but was pretty much ignored. Despite several entreaties no support was forthcoming.

Unable to gain US support in 1945, Ho was forced to find arms and supplies where he could: Russia, and later on to a lesser extent, from China too.

Now that is the "Tragedy of the Vietnam War".

Yes, that's like linking Pearl Harbor to the fall of Japan in WWII.

Those who argue about the history of the Vietnam/American war and doomed to repeat themselves.

Andy,

Wise words indeed.

Are you linking the fall of the Soviet Union with the US' defeat in Vietnam? If so, I can't see the connection.

Again I don't think the US was defeated in Vietnam. But we have discussed this ad nauseum.

Yes, I know about the US supporting Ho with OSS Tms, etc. But the French were our allies not the VM. But my comment is based on the fact that the Communist today, E.g. the former USSR and current PRC are not the same "communists" of the Cold War. They have very much "evolved".

E.g. today the PRC has about 18% of the World GNP. Seconded to the USA. In 2010 they only had about 2-3% … I see that as significant.

The Russians are only really a threat to the USA if we talk about WMDs. They are more of the threat to the nations/regions that border them. They don't have the number and more importantly their economy is just not that strong. And the USA, as payback for the USSR's support of their Communist Brothers in Vietnam. We supported the Muj vs. the USSR. That was one big reason the USSR ended up leaving A'stan. It has been said it was "Their Vietnam" …

Which now in retrospect we should have gone with the CIA's first plan. And let both sides bleed themselves out. Maybe no 9/11 would have been the result?

Even the Vietnamese economy is better that was since the end of that war. As I said, my cane, crutches and walker I got from the VA were made in Vietnam. I'm sure the Vietnam Vets at the VA can see the irony in that.

Yes, that's like linking Pearl Harbor to the fall of Japan in WWII.

Yes that was considered a Tactical Victory but it became Strategic defeat of Japan. Had they not attacked the US. Things may have been different. And as we know with the Battle of Midway about 6 months after Pearl Harbor. That signaled the end of the Japanese War effort. Albeit it took years to clean them out of all the places they had invaded.

But the French were our allies not the VM

Maybe but the US has shafted allies & supported odious authoritarian regimes before & since. It is sad to muse that if it had done so here, their defeat in Vietnam, decades later, may have been avoided.

Maybe … But hindsight is 20/20. And at the time the French were one of our NATO allies against the USSR/WP hordes. That might flood across the IGB.

The VM … albeit our OSS Tms assisted Ho with fighting the IJFs and setting up ratlines for our downed aviators in the area during WWII. The big threat was the USSR/WP in Europe. The VM were in reality at that time "small potatoes". So to speak.

The French, the USA's long time allies since the AWI. Their nation was more important than a low tech, tiny, 3d World tropical Asian country of paddy farmers. On the other side of the world. That most in the US couldn't find on a map … or care. That was the reality of the situation, for better or worse.

That most in the US couldn't find on a map … or care

Are you talking about France or Vietnam? 87))

Both !

Dude!… (smile)

Amicalement
Armand

I think Ho Chi Minh would have been happy to get support from where ever he could at that time. While he may have admired America's Constitution (I believe he even lived in the USA for a time) I don't believe he ever intended to form anything but a communist government. In my opinion neither are compatible with the other.

That sounds reasonable …