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"Was Brigadier an actual British rank in the Napoleonic Wars?" Topic


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Comments or corrections?

huevans01125 Feb 2020 9:41 p.m. PST

The impression I have is that there were just 3 general ranks in the British army – General, Lt-General (a divisional command) and Maj-General (a senior brigade command). Most of the British brigades appear to be commanded by full colonels.

This would suggest that there was no actual brigadier rank as such in the British army at the time of the Napoleonic Wars.

But the Osprey on British generals suggests that there was a brigadiers uniform which was the Maj-General's rig with different lower sleeve button detail.

About to re-do my British command figures and am wondering whether I should paint most of them as colonels in regimental uniforms.

Personal logo ochoin Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2020 12:49 a.m. PST

There were brigadiers.

Google this for a pdf that explains all:

How Senior Officers Were Promoted in the British Army during …
napoleon-series.org › Generals › GeneralOfficerPromotions
PDF
by R Burnham

John Armatys26 Feb 2020 4:20 a.m. PST

Brigadier became a substantive rank in the British Army in 1948. Prior to that "Brigadier"/"Brigadier General" was at various times an appointment, a local rank or a temporary rank given to an officer in command of a brigade or improvised force formed from several units, commonly a colonel or lieutenant colonel. (Incidentally between 1921 and 1927 the rank was "colonel commandant" or "colonel on the staff").

There was, as you say, a brigadier's uniform. As to what they actually wore…. And if a brigadier was recently appointed or his uniform was in the wash he could well have worn his regimental uniform.

The other general rank in the British Army was Field Marshal.

Frederick Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2020 7:29 a.m. PST

For a naval example "commodore" was an administrative title for a long time (someone commanding more than one ship) and then more recently became a formal rank (which as I recall is equivalent to brigadier)

In the Canadian Forces there are a number of old timers who strongly object to the term "brigadier general" – which is the official Canadian Forces rank – and prefer the term "brigadier" – which as I recall is the British army rank

42flanker26 Feb 2020 7:33 a.m. PST

Brigadier was an appointment, as was commodore in the navy, Although not a substantive rank in this period, as pointed out, an officer might be identified as such in local Army Lists.

While Major generals customarily had command of brigades, on occasion, in the infantry for example, if there was a shortage of staff officers, the senior Lieutenant Colonel might be found in command of the brigade to which his battalion was assigned.

42flanker26 Feb 2020 7:41 a.m. PST

I recall being told that a distinction was made between a brigadier who had command of a formation comprised of troops from a single arm- infantry, cavalry, artillery, and 'bona fide' general officers who commanded formations composed of combined arms.

It seems a nice point but that never discouraged military men.

Personal logo McLaddie Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2020 1:04 p.m. PST

A Brigadier was a 'brevet' rank, a temporary rank in a campaign. For instance, when Lt. Colonel Thomas Graham was placed in charge of the Siege of Malta in 1798 [IIRC], he was commanding a number of lt. colonels who had seniority. For the Malta campaign he was given the rank of Brigadier General to avoid that problem, but only for that campaign. He didn't receive the rank of Major General until 1809.

The same kind of thing was done for lower grades, e.g. a captain being 'breveted' a major for some project or campaign.

So, Brigadier was an actual rank, but only temporary.

John Tyson26 Feb 2020 1:54 p.m. PST

In the French Army, a "brigadier" was a cavalry enlisted rank equivalent to a "corporal" in the infantry.

Makes sense that a "Brigadier General" would be of less rank than a "Sergeant Major General" and a "Lieutenant General."
(Sergeant Major General was shortened to Major General. Thus the answer to the question, "Why does a Lieutenant General outrank a Major General?")

Don Perrin26 Feb 2020 4:06 p.m. PST

Fun fact: Commodore comes from the practice that when a Squadron Commander (Commodore) is on a ship, the ship's Captain is no longer the top dog, and thus shouldn't have the best cabin. Savvy Captains had identical cabins to Squadron Commanders, but installed gold leaf on their privies to give the Squadron Commander the "better" cabin. This "Commode d'or" or toilet of gold, became Commodore.

I know, I know … I'll see myself out, head hung low.

huevans01126 Feb 2020 5:13 p.m. PST

Has anyone come across a definitive source for the existence (or absence) of a brigadier's specific uniform for this period?

huevans01126 Feb 2020 5:19 p.m. PST

Savvy Captains had identical cabins to Squadron Commanders, but installed gold leaf on their privies to give the Squadron Commander the "better" cabin. This "Commode d'or" or toilet of gold, became Commodore.

I know, I know … I'll see myself out, head hung low.

Another example of cheap toilet humour…..

Don Perrin26 Feb 2020 5:39 p.m. PST

Well, for the Captain, maybe. The Commodore certainly has a rather expensive one!

Brechtel19826 Feb 2020 5:45 p.m. PST

In the French Army, a "brigadier" was a cavalry enlisted rank equivalent to a "corporal" in the infantry.

Not only in the cavalry, but in any of the mounted units of the French army, such as horse artillery, trains, and the gendarmerie.

SHaT198426 Feb 2020 8:15 p.m. PST

No.

Personal logo McLaddie Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2020 11:24 p.m. PST

Has anyone come across a definitive source for the existence (or absence) of a brigadier's specific uniform for this period?

The British General Orders mention the requirements because officers had to purchase their own uniforms. Rank was indicated by the arrangements of buttons:

picture

Cole, in the middle, was a Major General, so his buttons and lace were arranged in two button groups, A Lt. General would have a three button/lace arrangement as does Cole in this picture:

picture

So, this would be the coat of a…?

picture

Full generals had four button/lace configuration and a Marshall, six.

A brigadier would have a single button/lace confinguration… though few actually bought uniform coats for a temporary position.

42flanker27 Feb 2020 12:56 a.m. PST

I think brevet ranks were not temporary. They allowed recognition of service without affecting seniority and the officer would be addressed thenceforth by the brevet rank.

Perhaps that was a later development. It was the case with my grandfather, at any rate.

Brechtel19827 Feb 2020 4:50 a.m. PST

And it should be noted that a brigadier/corporal was not an NCO in the French army.

huevans01127 Feb 2020 5:55 a.m. PST

A brigadier would have a single button/lace configuration… though few actually bought uniform coats for a temporary position.

On page 31, the Osprey states:

"Generals had their buttons at equal distances, lt-generals in threes, Maj-generals and brigadier-generals in pairs, except the latter had their skirts and cuff buttons set 2 over 1."

Theoretically, a brigadier then could purchase the appropriate coat and simply add the extra lace trim and button when he was (hopefully) promoted to Maj-general. Although that gold embroidered general's uniform would cost a pretty penny, I would think. The unlaced field uniform version probably far less so.

Anyone know off hand whether a colonel would ascend to the rank of Maj-general automatically by seniority – assuming he survived long enough?

John Armatys27 Feb 2020 6:11 a.m. PST

"Anyone know off hand whether a colonel would ascend to the rank of Maj-general automatically by seniority – assuming he survived long enough?"

No. Captains in the Royal Navy were promotes to Rear Admiral by seniority (until 1940!), but generals were selected.

42flanker27 Feb 2020 7:51 a.m. PST

Au contraire. You only have to scan the Gazette or look at the Army Lists to see officers of staff rank with shared seniority being promoted in job lots as the years go by Colonel Major General Lieutenant.

JMcCarroll27 Feb 2020 10:08 a.m. PST

Only on Dr. Who.

42flanker27 Feb 2020 11:53 a.m. PST

Ah, that would be The Brigadier, surely, rather than A brigadier.

Personal logo McLaddie Supporting Member of TMP27 Feb 2020 8:49 p.m. PST

No. Captains in the Royal Navy were promotes to Rear Admiral by seniority (until 1940!), but generals were selected.

Yes, but once a general, the seniority of the generals applied.

Au contraire. You only have to scan the Gazette or look at the Army Lists to see officers of staff rank with shared seniority being promoted in job lots as the years go by Colonel Major General Lieutenant.

That has to do with officers/generals retired or died, leaving room for those below to move up… It could well be done in lots.

I think brevet ranks were not temporary. They allowed recognition of service without affecting seniority and the officer would be addressed thenceforth by the brevet rank.

I think you are thinking of the general brevet of 18 June 1815 awarded to officers who had participated in the Waterloo campaign. All the majors present received the brevet of lieutenant-colonel, and all captains on the staff received the brevet of major.

Based on this, I think the recognition aspect was something done later, particularly after the Napoleonic Wars where there weren't any movement in the seniority queue.

Otherwise, it wasn't an aware of any brevets awarded as recognition or a reward.

Do you have examples of that? All the brevet ranks granted I have seen, such as Craufurd's, were temporary. Thomas Graham lost his brevet brigadier general rank after the Malta campaign [and war in 1800] was concluded.

Personal logo McLaddie Supporting Member of TMP27 Feb 2020 9:05 p.m. PST

42flanker:

There is this from the now defunct Napoleon Series which in some sense supports your understanding. It certainly was a route to higher permanent/paid rank.

"General Brevet Calendar of the British Army 1790-1819"
By Steve Brown

Brevet: noun. A commission promoting a military officer in rank without an increase in pay.
Brevetted or breveted, brevetting or breveting, brevets: To promote by brevet.
Middle English, from Anglo-Norman, diminutive of bref, letter, from Latin brevis, short.

The regimental system was of such primacy in the British Army that it held an internalised rank system which operated independently of the Army's promotion system. An officer could very likely hold a higher rank in the Army than he did in his regiment; brevet rank did not entitle the holder to additional pay in the regiment, nor additional regimental duties, unless acting in an ‘Army' role – for example, a garrison commander.

Only captains, majors and lieutenant-colonels were eligible for brevet promotion. An officer could neither sell, exchange nor go on the half-pay of his brevet rank.

Seniority in the regiment determined promotion in the regiment, based upon regimental and not Army rank.

However the big advantage of brevet rank was that it placed an officer on the road to higher rank through progressive promotion in the army, which was determined by Army rather than regimental rank. Officers holding higher brevet rank could be promoted to the same substantive rank in another unit over the heads of senior officers of the same substantive rank who did not hold a brevet.

This however sometimes caused problems. Arthur Wellesley arrived at the rank of lieutenant-colonel by purchase on 30 September 1793, despite having spent only six-and-a-half years in the army, and only five months as a major. His rise was rapid but unremarkable in the British Army of the time; many other young and inexperienced officers reached such a rank either through purchase, or through the practice of ‘recruiting for rank', receiving a commission by the raising of a number of enlistees, even entire regiments (as was the case with Thomas Graham). This caused resentment amongst long-serving but poorer officers.

One device which was used to ameliorate the feelings of this latter class was the general brevet. This was the communal up-lift of an entire class of officers to the next rank, with defined cut-off points at the upper and lower end, initiated by the Commander-in-Chief and signed off by the King. Sometimes this was based upon promotion of an entire group by year, but not always. Other rules included exclusion by stationary half-pay rank due to inactivity, or charges pending, as evidenced by this letter from the Duke of York to a vexed overlooked officer in 1803;

It is an invariable rule of the service, not to include in any brevet promotion, an officer (whatever may be his rank) against whom there exists charges, the merit of which has not been decided….

In a system with aged generals at the top end who sooner or later succumbed to imbecility or natural causes, the continual shuffling forward of the lower ranked field officers and junior generals ensured a turnover in officers that allowed recipients of the brevet to ‘keep up the spirit of the army.' Henry Torrens made this comment in 1810 after calculating that an officer entering the army at the age of 16 could make Major-General by the age of 51, with the wry post-script that the youngest lieutenant-general in the last general brevet had been a mere 75 years young.

The Commander-in-Chief Lord Amherst made a well-intentioned but ultimately flawed decision to promulgate a massive promotion of majors and lieutenant-colonels by brevet in 1794, subsequently called ‘The Monstrous Brevet'; however word got out well in advance, and many officers purchased a step in rank in order to effectively get a double-step when the brevet was awarded. The Monstrous Brevet was finally published on 28 September 1794 but back-dated to 1 March 1794, so that many of the recipients found that they had purchased a step in rank towards seniority that in reality they could have received for free. The Duke of York later made corrections to prevent such things happening again.

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