"The Founding Fathers Feared Foreign Influence—" Topic

…And Devised Protections Against It.

"When the Founding Fathers met in Philadelphia during the 1787 Constitutional Convention, they represented a loosely held confederacy of Atlantic states recently freed from British rule. If the American experiment was going to work, the founding fathers knew that they had to insulate their new republic from deep-pocketed interests and old alliances from Europe.

Through a course of heated conversations and compromises, safeguards against foreign influence as a corrupting force were built into the Constitution…"
Main page
link

Amicalement
Armand

I will keep my thoughts on this topic to myself however, Thanks for posting.

This does not contribute to miniature warfare. Is there a History Page where such links could be posted instead?

War is the continuation of Diplomacy by other means…..safeguards against foreign influence are therefore highly relevant.

I liked Dave Roos's articles on Mexican food and culture. His first hand knowledge was gained by living there in 2003 for a number of years and is currently living there now. I would like him to write articles about the Mexican Revolutions.

Wars are the continuation of politics by other means, 20th. And they are sometimes caused by religion. That does not make TMP the place to discuss the Iowa Caucus of the Pelagian Heresy.

Tango-
You appear to be a well educated gentleman. I assume you know that this topic is both unrelated to wargaming a current tinderbox for Americans.

Therefore, I don't understand why you would deliberately post such a thing at TMP. Am I wrong about my assumptions?

I agree with Robert. War is the result of politics/ diplomacy (gone awry…), sure. Those policies have their root in a whole range of issues, so are we free to talk about all of those? So basically everything!
This is a site about wargaming, so a discussion of war seems entirely relevant, but how far beyond that do we take it?
Hmmm, seems like we've had this discussion quite a few times.

The Founding Fathers really were a group of extremely brilliant men. There were many arguments among them, and yet they were successful and now, two and a half centuries later, history still smiles on them.

Yes;but are the smiling down on us?

Yes;but are the smiling down on us?

Perhaps, though their 18th century sensibilities would probably be offended by many aspects of our popular culture. They certainly were well aware of the nastiness of politics and the press. The Adams – Jefferson Presidential campaign has gone down in history as particularly nasty. But despite a very bloody civil war the US Constitution still endures.

"And Devised Protections against it". Yet Britain was the US's largest trading partner for nearly one hundred years and it was the Royal Navy that really enforced the Monroe Doctrine.

(smile)

Amicalement
Armand

Genew- No. Absolutely not. As Franklin said:
"We've given you a Republic…if you can keep it".

Actually Pan Marek, the US Constitution is working.

This does not contribute to miniature warfare. Is there a History Page where such links could be posted instead?

There is no 'History Page' as this forum seems to be the right place for the original post as this forum is described as "For discussion of anything related to the American Revolution/War of American Independence."
I think it would be a good idea for other message boards to have a History page of sorts. [At BGG, where I am also a member, there is a Historical Context sub-forum of Wargaming for such things. Regrettably, it is rarely used in comparison to other forums but occasionally there are some interesting items posted there.]

@Quaama

You need to learn to interpret the buzz words.

"This does not contribute to miniature warfare"

Really means, "This [viewpoint] makes me uncomfortable and I dont like it"

Threads like this serve to shake people out of their bourgeois complaceny.

Well said….

Amicalement
Armand

Although I am rather set in my ways, I appreciate your comments MiniPigs.
I believe that the discussion of historical matters is part of wargaming, a very interesting part that drew me to wargaming as a major hobby of mine. I believe that without an appreciation of the historical context of wars and battles people miss out on an enjoyable aspect of wargaming.

If others are made uncomfortable by the viewpoints of others they should probably stay away from forums, and the internet in general. I personally get frustrated by others who put forward an historical viewpoint and adamantly stick to it, but fail to produce any evidence to support their opinions [but I get over it without any grief]. I especially like to see the viewpoints of others when they have taken the time and effort to research the matter and have historical facts to support their argument. I also like to see people 'shaken out of their complacency' as they might possibly learn something new.

You need to learn to interpret the buzz words.

"This does not contribute to miniature warfare"

Really means, "This [viewpoint] makes me uncomfortable and I dont like it"

Or maybe we mean just what we are saying. Some of us are inundated with hot topic political or social issues in our day to day lives. I have to deal with them both at work and in volunteer activities. I also participate on a forum where political and social issues are debated in a no holds barred manner. I come to sites such as this to get away from that.

When people start out with the argument "The Founding Fathers thought X" the subtext is frequently that it is wrong for people to argue for a different policy, position or result today. Maybe someone living outside the U.S. might not recognize the subtext of this author's argument, but most of us here do.

From my studies I have concluded the so called Founding Fathers consisted of a large number of men who occupied a number of different positions and held a number of different views. Some were even known to change their views over time. when someone starts an argument with "The Founding Fathers thought" my instinct is to check my shoes to see if I stepped in something when crossing the cow pasture.

If anyone genuinely cares about views of foreign entanglements in the early American Republic, I would suggest Washington's Farewell Address as a starting point.

You can also take a look at the infamous XYZ Affair.

@Bill N

Or maybe we mean just what we are saying. Some of us are inundated with hot topic political or social issues in our day to day lives. I have to deal with them both at work and in volunteer activities. I also participate on a forum where political and social issues are debated in a no holds barred manner. I come to sites such as this to get away from that.

The Wargames forum as an oasis from all the controversy?

That's fine but the utterer of said "buzz words" has recently taken part in non wargame related discussions. I can only surmise it is because the subject matter interested him. It doesnt seem right to me that off road subject matter is sometimes alright and sometimes an outrage. However, I do understand your point that maybe it's preferable to have a clubby atmosphere devoid of invective. I must note that you dont seem to resent discussing the Founding Fathers but merely the use of them as a silver bullet against counter-arguments on a given subject.

As a side note: I dont envy you arguing with people you disagree with politically. I consider those who hold contrary views to my own to be evil and deserving of punishment and wouldnt waste my time arguing with them; just work to override them.