"French Dragoon Generals Dress" Topic

It's pretty obvious the Light Cavalry Generals dressed in uniforms that fit their troops, and that several Cuirassier Generals were similarly attired. But in building the Grand Armee of 1805-07, would I find Gouchy, Klein, Beaumont and Sahuc attired in green with helmets. Or would they have worn the uniform of a General de Division, and what of the Brigade commanders?

Nearly all generals identified closely with their 'corps' type.
The Empirical acumen of selecting and/ or promoting such officers was demonstrable and in a way predictable. However notable cross-overs also occurred. Different subject of course.

I am completing my 3e Dragoon Division of Camp Boulogne- Austerliz etc. (GDV de La Boninière-Beaumont) with both brigadiers (Boyé and Scalfort) in dragoon officer with Generals lace/ horse furniture- not sure about 'him' yet as most generals don't get personalised paintings in uniform for guidance.

But I'm happy either way. Certainly his unknown ADCs (at this stage) will be dragoons as well. In more ceremonial surroundings, lesser generals probably did succumb to the prescribed blue Generals dress,
FWIW, dave

I agree with SHaT1984

As well dragoons were often used as escorts – I use the number of figs on a command stand to indicate the level of command so I have a few higher up commands with dragoons on them

There was a lot more latitude in general grade officers in most armies. Officers bought their own uniforms, so… while they definitely would want to associate with their corps, how they did it and how often was really up to them. Most wouldn't be spending the kind of money that Murat or Lannes did, but there was room for personal expression.

In case there is no contemporary pictorial evidence, I would use the usual generals uniform, no helmet either.

Here's my first dragoon command made about 10 yrs ago, as above.
2nd Brigade commander with ADC's- standard General figure plus an ADC; modified Infantry colonel figure with new head and chapeau to represent a capitaine of dragoons.
regards dave

‌3e Dr Dv- 2 BD_GBD Scalfort_ IMG_3912_sm

I would expect a captain of dragoons to wear a helmet. He's a squadron or company commander. A general, on the other hand, I'd expect to see in dragoon uniform with a bicorn.

You make 'em your way, I'll make 'em mine ;-)
Frankly I became sick of seeing samey-same generals in other [peoples] armies and chose not to follow the flock.
Undress, or part thereof, was a completely routine and appropriate alternate officers dress.

Just like horse furniture, not everyone changed from 'revolution' styles of uniform nor (as pointed out by others in prior discussion) did they obtain sufficient remuneration or reward that enabled up to date regulation (if that existed) uniform.

Dashing about all day as an ADC may have been a tiring exercise if wearing helmets! Anyway, my scene based commands give me pleasure and personality in my armies.
regards d

SHaT1984- Out of curiosity, what color do you paint the general's lapel?

Out of curiosity, what color do you paint the general's lapel?

Good question!
You have options!
Some Generals de Brigade (and above perhaps) wore their regimentals (from where they were perhaps promoted) with just generals lace embroidered in the appropriate places.

Lasalle fr'instance wore 7th Hussars with lace and generals accoutrements á la hussard.

My model in this case wears a 'frac' or undress type habit with generals lace. So he has no lapels; centre closed hooks/ buttons. All green in other words.
He could equally have had regimental lapel colours, or a generic 'scarlet', since he would probably have 'generals buttons, with no regimental numbers.

The Model:
This is actually a Minifigs (Miniature Figurines Ltd-UK) French Personality figure- FNCX5 Nansouty- commander of the 1er Heavy Cavalry Division-

so he started life as a cuirassier, a similar uniform- they modelled him with good lapels, a star medal and strangely, an aiguillette on the right shoulder.

I carved the chest flat removing the detail and removed the aiguillette, adjusting the arm downward and ADC given or giving him a piece of paper-(the paper being milliput).

3e Dr DV- 2 BD_GBD Scalfort -front-IMG_3931_sm (flickr)

I really like the job you did on this, especially the front lace. I wish that Minifigs had continued with some of their 2nd Generation figures like this one. Some of them are still available under the 15mm Revolution Period set. There is one with LaSalle, Junot and a Cuirassier officer (Nansouty ?).

Thanks bkim, but these are 25mm of course.
I'll throw some more pics of other units on the flickr site during the week.
The 'other' big name cuirassier general is of course d'Hautpoul. Possibly better known.
regards dave

Nicely painted, Minifigs have a very traditional appeal and a great detail of charm. The suggestion that Lasalle wore the green and red uniform of the 7th Hussars may be coincidental; for whilst he was, for a short while, a lieutenant colonel of the 7th Hussars he was later colonel of the 10th Hussars for about 4 years and their uniform was light blue.

Many years ago I had a Historex model of Murat, the Historex model kits came with coloured cards showing the uniform details (and may well still do so). The card showed two different uniforms for Murat, one was as a general of light cavalry and the other was the uniform he wore at Ulm (I think). The Ulm uniform was a hussar uniform comprising white breeches and dolman, plum coloured pelisse with a black colpack – all with the copious amounts of gold lace to which Murat became accustomed; I choose to depict the Ulm uniform. However, the light cavalry general's uniform was also a hussar uniform and comprised red breeches and green coloured dolman and pelisse (as I recall) with a brown colpack – all with gold lace. I have, over the years, occasionally seen illustrations where the breeches and the dolman are red and the pelisse is green. There is a portrait by Gros of General François Louis Fournier (later François Louis Fournier-Sarlovèze) in the Musee du Louvre. It shows Fournier in a hussar style uniform with red breeches and green coloured dolman and pelisse with a blue and gold barrel sash and there is a red shako lying nearby.

The depiction of a light cavalry uniform by Historex fits with a distant memory of reading that the heavy cavalry generals wore a very similar uniform to the foot generals. Certainly a quick Google of names such as D'Hautpol, Nansouty and Kellerman (to name a few) show them in gold laced long tailed navy blue coats, with cuirass for cuirassier generals. I think that the use of helmets was encouraged, but left to personal preference; models of D'Hautpol seem to favour a helmet, but Nansouty is often shown in a hat. I have also seen illustrations showing General de Brigade Chouard, commander of the Carabiniers in a short Cuirassier/Carabinier jacket in navy blue with the usual generals' gold lace and a black crested helmet. The Historex range seems much reduced as the model I had no longer appears to be available but perhaps someone recalls the illustrated card or still has an example.

The only Dragoon style Generals' uniform I have seen in illustrations was that worn by Louis Baraguey D'Hilliers in his role as Colonel General of Dragoons, showing him a green coat with rose (or red) facings and heavy gold lace. The engraving of him on his Wikipedia page shows him in a standard generals' coat. Any dragoon colonels appointed as Generals de Brigade on campaign may well have continued to wear their existing uniforms with the addition of a blue and gold sash (if available), with their blue generals' coat having to wait until they got back to Paris.

Rigo's picture of Louis Baraguey D'Hilliers in his role as Colonel General of Dragoons

DHautpol

Nice dissertation on themes.
I wouldn't discount Lasalles "uniform of the 7th Hussars may be coincidental" as the green and scarlet were popular with many cavalry generals, not least in mock imitation [perhaps] of the Chass á Cheval of the Garde. In his case I drew the analogy about regimental appropriation, but I take it back.

He is forever illustrated in those colours, and once I have seen dark blue pelisse and breeches, but nothing else.

Having just re-read johnstons Napoleons Cavalry it strikes me that Lasalle, like his kindred Murat, was a supreme egotist and narcissist. I'd say he was autistic to a degree, as at a certain level they lack social/ empirical empathy and awareness.

On Murat I have no comment as his fancies are beyond my interest. I'd agree the 'style' changed to include helmets etc. as the fashion set in.

PoE-Probably d'Hilliers dress uniform isn't so relevant for service work- and I doubt he'd ever wear that helmet when performing his 'inspection' duties except at the ceremonial parades and Imperial court.

Really, pink facings? I'd have expected straight scarlet, but maybe that clashed with his Grande Cordon?
Regards davew