"The U.K. Does Not Have Enough Ships To Escort Its Aircraft" Topic

….Carriers

"The Royal Navy in late 2019 announced the composition of its first-ever aircraft carrier battle group. And it's both good and bad news for the storied fleet.

Good news because the Royal Navy just barely should be able to generate all the ships and planes it need to deploy an entirely British battle group.

Bad news because frequent deployments with the same mix of ships clearly is unsustainable as the Royal Navy shrinks, the inevitable result of decades of declining budgets…"

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Amicalement
Armand

A terrible shame, and a pity, but not surprising.

They only figured this out now?
Even a clueless armchair general like myself could have told them that 5 if not 10 years ago.

Question is, are they in these days of coalition wars, ever expected to deploy in a purely RN battlegroup?

And, is it a bad thing if the end up being used to increase the USN carrier fleet ?

A senior Italian air force commander said a few years ago whilst his country is in NATO which is good, they also have to plan on NATO ceasing to exist or to be effective. Indeed the future may hold such scenarios.

Also the USN is currently stretched itself due to long term issues with acquisition of new ships and maintenance of existing ones. Having another flattop to protect is not necessarily that easy given lack of assets and especially someone else's flattop that is less capable than your own Nimitiz class behemoths.

Most ofthe rest of NATO is in a similar position thanks to 30 years or more of cutbacks.

It would have been interesting if NATO would be a real Continental combat force and that the escorts of any Aircraft Carrier belongs from other nationalities such as French, Italian, Belgian, etc.

But there is the BREXIT paht … totally against that…

Amicalement
Armand

Tango,

Brexit has nothing to do with NATO. UK stays in NATO and there's no changes there. Belgian, Italians etc can deploy assets to a British carrier group if they desire. The more pressing matter might be that most EU states no longer have big enough navies to support peeling off ships to support a British carrier.

As for EU army, I think it's a bad idea. The EU is already an authoritarian organisation – it is ruled by unelected technocrats with a mock parliament with no real powers. In some ways it's closer to Soviet Union in terms of function than a western democracy.

I am not sure why Europeans and progressives alike are so in love with EU. It's essentially the most undemocratic institution ever invented in western countries since 1945!

And with NATO in existence, there is no real imperative for a separate EU force.

Some analysts think that the real thinking behind an EU army is that unlike NATO forces, the EU army could be used to crush internal dissent and prevent other countries from leaving EU.

I guess to be fair, most opponents, save for the Chinese, are really down in numbers of warships too, so that helps a bit.

Many thanks!.

Amicalement
Armand

Some analysts think that the real thinking behind an EU army is that unlike NATO forces, the EU army could be used to crush internal dissent and prevent other countries from leaving EU.

Thanks for that, the best laugh I've had all day. And which analysts are these, exactly?

I am not sure why Europeans and progressives alike are so in love with EU.

Because its not:

essentially the most undemocratic institution ever invented in western countries since 1945!

or

an authoritarian organisation – it is ruled by unelected technocrats with a mock parliament with no real powers. In some ways it's closer to Soviet Union in terms of function than a western democracy.

And actually a lot of 'progressives' tend to view the EU as being in the pocket of the Neo-Liberal economic devil!

Some analysts think that the real thinking behind an EU army is that unlike NATO forces, the EU army could be used to crush internal dissent and prevent other countries from leaving EU.

Wut? Frankly Golitsyn's claims in New Lies for Old make more sense.

It is a protectionist racket, yes. "Gravy boat, like a train only slower" to quote Sir Humphrey – but show me a big bureaucracy that isn't! Only marginally quicker at making decisions than the UN.

And almost certainly not going to create an EU army anytime see above.