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"1805- Soults Etat-Major" Topic


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1,009 hits since 14 Jan 2020
©1994-2022 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

SHaT198414 Jan 2020 4:08 a.m. PST

hi all,
As a gamer and researching the specifics of the campaign OB, his command had (as all Corps did) a designated "OFFICIER A LA SUITE DE MAJOR GENERAL"; that is an ADC/ Liaison Officer from Mal Berthiers General Staff.

In this case, I cannot trace one Chef de bataillon Jeanguillaume (no first names known previously).

I've checked all the texts and French resources I possibly can; all the sites and came up with only one hit @ ancestramil.fr for a :
Nom : JEANGUILLAUME
Prénom : Claude François
Date de naissance : 21 février 1765
Lieu : Clairvaux (Jura)
Date de décès :
Lieu :
Nombre d'années de service :
Nombre de campagnes :

with total notes:
soldat au régiment d'Aquitaine, compagnie Blaire, 2e bataillon, le 30 juillet 1784 – a obtenu son congé de grâce, le 27 mai 1791 – rentré au service au 7e bataillon du Jura, 7e compagnie comme sous-lieutenant ( nommé 7 août 1791) jour de sa formation, le 24 novembre 1791.

This person would have been aged 40 @ 1805, so not unreasonable that he became an Adjutant-Commandant and he was in 1799:
Fonction : adjoint à l'adjudant-général Verlé
Armée : du Danube

Amazingly this one was also on the Irish Expedition:
celles de la Révolution 1792, 1793 ans 2 à 10 aux différentes armées – siège de Gênes – envoyé en mission à l'Isle de Malthe par le 1er Consul – expédition d'Irlande commandée par le général Hoche, du 1er frimaire au 27 nivôse an V sur le vaisseau « Le Nestor » en qualité d'adjoint à l'adjudant général Evrard !

There is no reference after 1802 unfortunately, at least on this site. Apparently he did not reach General grade at any time or was wounded.

So, in the absence of any [further] concrete information, my plan is to employ a plain Adjutant-Commandant uniform (actually an Austrian plainish General figure in blue), with aiguillette, as he'd be, if not in the Garde proper, then as an officer of the Etat-Major Generale, entitled to wear one (if not by regulation then of direction by Berthier). And I would think have been supported by 1 or 2 Adjoints as well, tho these are not referenced in the 'Situations' so perhaps not.

Any further assistance appreciated,
regards
davew

SHaT198417 Jan 2020 3:29 p.m. PST

Guess I need to ask less complicated questions… beer

Prince of Essling19 Jan 2020 6:25 a.m. PST

Alombert has the following as senior HQ staff in IV Corps as at 23 September 1805:

Guillaume Chef de bataillon
Esnard Chef de baitaillon
Bouschard chef d'escradon
Lefebvre chef de bataillon
Revest chef de bataillon
Pegot chef de bataillon
Pocholle chef de bataillon

SHaT198420 Jan 2020 8:07 p.m. PST

PoE
Interesting and thanks. That's a lot of high end power that doesn't appear in any Situations that I read/ have.
I 'scanned' through A&C @ librairie de Musée de l'armée when I visited, took about 40 pages of notes but I read very little directly about 4e Corps actually.

The guys name is definitely Jeanguillaumme- plain and clear as day in Situation Frimaire 1 AN14; they do not include forenames unless there are multiple surnames (like a father and son combo- lots of those as General / ADC pairings), so I have no reason to doubt the name is correct.

Back to your list- I cannot correlate any names with 4e Corps- perhaps the source has dates confused, but even then none are immediately recognisable to me either. I have the A&C books now they are ex-copyright. What Volume/ pages does this reference appear in? Search within them doesn't seem to function well however.

I just also checked a 20? page 'Tableau de la Grande Armée' that enumerates in one document all 7 corps and supports. It is undated by the originators (!) but some helpful archivist has put '1805' on the front page and it is otherwise accurate- just earlier in the campaign (Suchets DV was still under Soult).

And what body had need of so many CdBon? Even the Artillerie and Genie aren't covered. Soult has 8 ADC's per regs, and the Situations are pre-printed with "OFFICIER A LA SUITE DE MAJOR GENERAL" among the Corps Etat-Major, so his position will be of record under Berthier, not actually 4e Corps staff, I'm thinking. (They were so well organised I was SO amazed at the documentation I found! This is another reason I doubt the criticism of Soult @ 1815 as Major-General). Salut~
regards
dave

Prince of Essling21 Jan 2020 1:20 p.m. PST

Hi Dave,

See Tome 1: link

Oops I see a slight error in my transcribing – doh! Correct list is:

Baillod Chef de bataillon
Armanet Chef de bataillon
Guillaume Chef de bataillon
Esnard Chef de bataillon
Bouschard Chef d'escradon
Lefebvre Chef de bataillon
Revest Chef de bataillon

This page lists the 15 Adjoints link

This page has the names of 2 Poles nominated to serve on the staff of 4 Corps: link

SHaT198422 Jan 2020 4:13 a.m. PST

Hi
Thanks for the update.

You are going to hate me, but I actually had that (first) list transcribed (5 July 1984) on my last day @Musee del'armee. Next day I shifted over to SHAT @ Vincennes for the rest of the month.

Reading that again, does leave a mystery; these guys must be back office admins- they are not named as part of the 'military' household and none of them are in common under the several Situations Etat-Major. Or, this is an early draft, and all changed.

I note the Emperor cited too many seniors officers in administrative areas were employed within France (l'interior) and 'suggested' both rank and numbers be reduced (in preference to the mobilised army), including retirements that had been 'pending'.

The Adjoints list does correlate to many of those in 4e Corps (its Divisions), and the Polish officers I knew about but were otherwise unidentified (or even mentioned) in Situations. So another trail and uniforms to follow. Those Polish officers drawn from retirees and demobilised 'Legions', as I understand it.

Certainly adds a few unique figures to command groups; and sort of mitigates the Guides-Interprets malady. They exist in Situations, yet Bucquoy and friends claim they didnt exist outside the Armee de Cotes de l'Ocean camp.

Thanks again,
d

SHaT198416 May 2021 4:38 p.m. PST

… bring up from a year ago.
Still trying to find him, them etc.

I've found nothing myself but may be some rays of light appeared with others…
~d

Musketballs17 May 2021 9:29 a.m. PST

Claude-Francois Jean Guillaume at Base Leonore:

link

So, seconded to 4th Corps staff from 94th Line.

LdH while at the camp of St Omer.

Died at Gassau, Bavaria from 'Putrid Fever' (normally means typhus) on 4th May 1806.

von Winterfeldt17 May 2021 1:01 p.m. PST

Gassau? Maybe Passau

Musketballs17 May 2021 1:42 p.m. PST

Looks like 'G's to me in the letter.

There is a Gassau in Bavaria – North-East of Munich

SHaT198417 May 2021 5:19 p.m. PST

Excellent stuff!
Don't know why nothing came up a year ago… perhaps the space between surname just caused it? Certainly that 'modernised' spelling isn't correct, looking at HIS documentation.

Jeanguillaume- ancetrsemil_02- on Flickr.


Wonderful to get a confirmation and a better picture of him. Sad way to end a career and only 41 yo!

Must have been nasty catching typhoid somewhere unknown- a bit like the black plague that still inhabits wild animals in Colorado perhaps.

I'd be pretty sure that "OFFICIER A LA SUITE DE MAJOR GENERAL" can only mean one thing, and he was clearly skilled at administrative duties to be so attached.

I would bank on my estimate of how uniform distinctions things developed that he was told to wear, or given, an Adjutant-Commandant uniform to differentaite himself from his regimental dress and 'commonality' as a senior member present on the Etat-Major. Possibly it should be full dress. He was there as Berthiers watchdog over matters.

Yes I'd go with Gassau, tho I'd never read of it either. Just goes to show how far widespread 'cohabitation' was located allied countries.

My eternal thanks, a 40 year mystery solved in a day… ;-)
regards and a Salut! Sante wine

SHaT198417 May 2021 6:32 p.m. PST

Ooops tried to get back to edit… above.

Might have been a brainf*rt that caused discrepency in role.
The "I'd be pretty sure that ….Berthiers watchdog over matters" needs to be excised.

Clearly he IS allocated as "OFFICIER A LA SUITE DE L'ETAT-MAJOR"- supernumary in English I guess to the Corps HQ staff, not as a watchdog.

Herewith the original document from SHAT(1984) C2- 477 :--

IMG_5331_Etat-Major 4e Corps_ 1erfrimaire ANXII_Austerlitz by DaveW, on Flickr.

So on uniform expectations, we are back to regimental uniform, with a Cross at least.

Cheers and sorry for the confusion,
~d

von Winterfeldt18 May 2021 12:06 p.m. PST

I cannot help but to read Passau

Musketballs18 May 2021 4:27 p.m. PST

Could be Passau – maybe the writer just has a habit of not closing the top loop.

French handwriting is always an adventure into the unknown.

SHaT198418 May 2021 4:47 p.m. PST

>>French handwriting is always an adventure into the unknown.

Ain't that the truth.
I copied a 5 page, octavo sized report on 'the' battle but can barely read 1/10th of it…

von Winterfeldt19 May 2021 1:55 a.m. PST

much easier to read than Current

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