"Have humans always gone to war?" Topic

"The question of whether warfare is encoded in our genes, or appeared as a result of civilisation, has long fascinated anyone trying to get to grips with human society. Might a willingness to fight neighbouring groups have provided our ancestors with an evolutionary advantage? With conflicts raging across the globe, these questions have implications for understanding our past, and perhaps our future as well.

The Enlightenment philosophers Thomas Hobbes and Jean-Jacques Rousseau had different visions of prehistory. Hobbes saw humanity's earliest days as dominated by fear and warfare, whereas Rousseau thought that, without the influence of civilisation, humans would be at peace and in harmony with nature…"
Main page
link

Amicalement
Armand

Yes

No. War is an extension of politics. Eliminate politics, and all you'll have is blood feuds, lethal territorial disputes and homicide by reason of rage, lust or greed, which seems to be where we started. Those things are not war--just killing.

A pity some humane time traveller didn't drop Rousseau off among New Guinea headhunters to get some perspective on humans without the influence of civilization. A bit rough on Rousseau, perhaps, but would anyone care to estimate the number of people killed already in an effort to perfect mankind along his lines? And I doubt we're half-way done yet. Some bad ideas take a lot of killing. Others cause a lot of killing. Rousseau's, sadly, are both.

Two observations which may be thought relevant; first – and this was published before Goodall's work, since I know what age I was when reading it – the facts that, compared to most animals, humans are relatively puny, and lack the kind of teeth and claws (Howard Hughes apart) that can do much damage, led to the hypothesis that we lack the kind of powerful instinctual inhibition which ensures that most conflicts among animals of the same species do not result in immediate death. Certainly injuries may prove fatal, but in most cases animals, at least, know when to run. Often, the threat is enough, as we've all seen in wildlife documentaries.

The description of Human existence in a "State of Nature" as being "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short" is famous, but the riposte Hobbes is said to have made to adverse criticism of his views may be less so, but equally worthy of being remembered. Asked if they prepared for a journey to London (mid C17th) by, among other things, taking a brace of pistols, his critics replied scornfully that only a fool would take the risk of going unarmed. "I accuse by my words; you by your deeds."

From my admitly limited knowledge of anthropology I would say that there has been conflict as long as there have been humans – on an individual and tribal level. War is more a product of an organized civilization

Yes.

War is just killing on a larger scale – more than a few. I suspect it started with one or more of our caveman ancestors within or vs. another tribe, and then just expanded from there over time.

As societies and the number of people in them grew, so did the amount of killing.

In this respect, we are no more evolved than various ants and their colonies, which regularly make war on one another, killing, capturing, and even enslaving their enemies.

so… war is our blood?….

Amicalement
Armand

Refer back to an earlier post where I referenced a rather arcane and very dusty old book which was, in essence, an enclyclopeaodia of warfare dating from the ancient Greeks (3,000 to 2,000 BC) to the modern day, 1973 I believe was when the book was published. I had a copy, well over 1,000 pages and small print, used to use it in my regular strength training regimen, just hoist it down from the shelf and back up a few times daily, I had great biceps.
Very few days of true, world wide, peace. So yes, warfare is very human.

Yep, competition and violence are built into our DNA.

That's why we are the top species on the planet in many/most circumstances, relative to other creatures.

Thanks!.

Amicalement
Armand

war, the second oldest profession.