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"Study Finds Free Internet Access Should Be a Basic" Topic


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Gen Con So Cal 2005

Our Man in Southern California once again reports on GenCon California-style...


623 hits since 30 Nov 2019
©1994-2019 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP30 Nov 2019 9:15 p.m. PST

---Human right


"Free internet access must be considered as a human right, as people unable to get online – particularly in developing countries – lack meaningful ways to influence the global players shaping their everyday lives, according to a new study.

As political engagement increasingly takes place online, basic freedoms that many take for granted including free expression, freedom of information and freedom of assembly are undermined if some citizens have access to the internet and others do not…"
Main page
link

Amicalement
Armand

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian30 Nov 2019 9:21 p.m. PST

I was taught in school that rights were natural and endowed on by the nature of being born. They were therefore unalienable.

Thresher01 Supporting Member of TMP30 Nov 2019 9:56 p.m. PST

I think a minimum of a month-long, ALL expenses paid, tropical vacation should be a basic human "right" too.

Where do I apply?

Wolfhag30 Nov 2019 10:11 p.m. PST

A think a free lifetime TMP membership is a human right.

Wolfhag

Raynman Supporting Member of TMP30 Nov 2019 11:07 p.m. PST

I think it falls under the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. If you need internet to be happy, you can pursue it. It is not freely given to you. Like many of the things everyone is claiming as a "basic human right".

Fitzovich01 Dec 2019 3:18 a.m. PST

I believe as society relies more and more on the Internet to transfer information among people it should indeed be free.

Bigby Wolf In the TMP Dawghouse01 Dec 2019 4:34 a.m. PST

What Fitz said.

Seriously, try finding employment in Europe nowadays without Internet access.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP01 Dec 2019 4:34 a.m. PST

No one's mentioned my basic human right to an opponent who enjoys the same rules, gives me a decent game but usually loses. I can't be happy without this, so someone has to provide or be that person.

Say after me, "life, liberty, property." Every other "human right" is something you propose to take from someone else.

VCarter Supporting Member of TMP01 Dec 2019 6:28 a.m. PST

Here is the U.S. it is already free at the public library and many businesses.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian01 Dec 2019 10:10 a.m. PST

I believe as society relies more and more on the Internet to transfer information among people it should indeed be free.

Free is the enemy of good. Free internet would inevitably be crappy internet.

Personal logo brass1 Supporting Member of TMP01 Dec 2019 10:59 a.m. PST

I think a minimum of a month-long, ALL expenses paid, tropical vacation should be a basic human "right" too.

I was treated to two of these back in the late '60s and early '70s. Be careful what you ask for.

LT

Stryderg01 Dec 2019 11:53 a.m. PST

That sounds a lot more like an opinion than a study.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP01 Dec 2019 12:15 p.m. PST

Strydberg, ANYTHING with "should" in the title is opinion rather than fact. Sadly, you can add to that about 80% of articles with "is" or "was" in the title, if they aren't hard science. I seem to spend more time sorting through piles of opinion looking for facts these days than I do actually reading the facts I find, there are so few of them.

Thresher01 Supporting Member of TMP01 Dec 2019 12:53 p.m. PST

Excellent point, brass1.

14Bore01 Dec 2019 1:38 p.m. PST

That means people are forced to work, and give up resources to give one that "right"

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP01 Dec 2019 2:16 p.m. PST

(smile)


Amicalement
Armand

Zephyr101 Dec 2019 2:34 p.m. PST

"Free internet would inevitably be crappy internet."

Until then, there's AOL… ;-)

And…

Studies show that studies work.

von Schwartz01 Dec 2019 6:03 p.m. PST

Editor in Chief Bill@
I was taught in school that rights were natural and endowed on by the nature of being born. They were therefore unalienable.
Define these "rights". You're being far too vague, according to many nowadays having health insurance is a right.

whitphoto Supporting Member of TMP01 Dec 2019 8:18 p.m. PST

It is becoming harder and harder to be a productive member of society without regular access to reliable internet. Too many companies ONLY accept internet applications, from minimum wage to six figure jobs. Extra charges for paper bills from utility company's and banks (disguised as discounts for going ‘paperless'). One of the last jobs I had while going through school did scheduling and time cards online only, without a cell phone with internet you needed to go into the office everyday and have a manager sign a time card (90 miles each way for me).

Right now in 2019 it's hard to exist without internet, in 10 or 20 years it may be next to impossible.

I believe that ACCESS to high speed internet is as close as you can get to a human right in first world countries. I think that there is no reason that in America there can't be coast to coast low cost access to the internet, similar to phone plans that phone companies used to be required to provide to the elderly and poor.

I also think there should be far more free access to the internet at libraries and other public facilities. I can go swimming at the local high school if I'm a resident, how come there is no computer lab. When I was working at the Community College computer lab there was an unofficial policy that anyone who wasn't causing a problem was allowed to use the lab, regardless of student status.

von Schwartz02 Dec 2019 8:10 a.m. PST

VCarter said it earlier, "free" internet is available in the US at the public libraries. And let us not forget the wonderful, high quality, Obama-phones that were handed out to everyone and anyone who wanted one whether they qualified or not, they have internet access.
And I agree 100% with robert piepenbrink,
Say after me, "life, liberty, property." Every other "human right" is something you propose to take from someone else.
Technically it should read, "pursuit of property"

Shagnasty Supporting Member of TMP02 Dec 2019 9:11 a.m. PST

I cling to my flip phone desperately. I fear the day when I am forced into the possession of the mini-computers that tracks, records, and reports your life to Them.

Personal logo Andrew Walters Supporting Member of TMP02 Dec 2019 10:19 a.m. PST

If we're talking "free" as in you can't be denied access, as with freedom of speech, freedom of association, etc. then I agree.

If we're talking about "free" as taxpayer funded, I disagree. You don't have the right to the product of someone else's labor.

If they want to make sure that people in repressive countries cannot be denied access to an unfiltered internet, that sounds great. But I don't think you can provide that any more than you can provide freedom of speech, the vote, or the right of habeas corpus to people in certain countries.

Thresher01 Supporting Member of TMP02 Dec 2019 10:52 a.m. PST

I agree with this:

"If we're talking about "free" as taxpayer funded, I disagree. You don't have the right to the product of someone else's labor".

whitphoto Supporting Member of TMP02 Dec 2019 11:52 a.m. PST


If we're talking "free" as in you can't be denied access, as with freedom of speech, freedom of association, etc. then I agree.

I think that the internet needs to be regulated as a utility, as it has become vital to society and every household needs to have access to it. Electric companies have a legal obligation to install, maintain and upgrade access to reliable service. It's not provided for free, but they HAVE to provide ACCESS to it as part of their contract with whatever level of government has authorized the contract.

I personally believe that local governments have a moral obligation to provide free access to the internet in a similar format to how libraries do, but more widespread. I don't think that we should hand out computers and high speed internet to everyone on earth though. But thats more of a personal belief than anything else.

Several of my children are college aged, when I was their age I needed to beat feet and go INTO stores to put in applications. When my sons did the same thing they were 99% of the time told to apply online. My current professional job required me to upload my resume, apply online, take an online test and have two online interviews before even seeing a person face to face. Every entry level corporate job works like this. College applications have been computerized for years, the local high school has a dedicated computer lab for it.

The internet is no longer a luxury. You can not tell people to get a better job and then not give them access to the most basic tools needed for it.

14Bore02 Dec 2019 11:52 a.m. PST

But while were at it lets open the discussion everyone should get a nice sports car
I'd like a new McLaren

Mike Target02 Dec 2019 1:22 p.m. PST

"I was taught in school that rights were natural and endowed on by the nature of being born. They were therefore unalienable."

This is taught in school in the US?

Well that would explain why I keep encountering this idea in various online forums…but I have many questions about how this works…

anywho…not sure if Id call internet access a Right, but its defo a necessity.

14Bore02 Dec 2019 3:36 p.m. PST

Doubt many if anyone died from having no internet
American rights cost no one else anything

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP03 Dec 2019 7:13 a.m. PST

better job

My current professional job

So, not a basic job?

You can not tell people to get a better job and then not give them access to the most basic tools needed for it.

Appropriate clothing, grooming supplies, and transportation?

Who is being denied access? No more than the other three basic tools just listed. And just like those, you're responsible to procure the things you can access for yourself.

Every entry level corporate job works like this.

Data?

College applications have been computerized for years, the local high school has a dedicated computer lab for it.

Bad context. Most all higher education institutions have an option for easier application through an Internet hosted service.

I think that the internet needs to be regulated as a utility

This would destroy the Internet and drive up the cost massively for what remains. On the bright side, it will remove the "need" for Internet access for some many "basic" things because you probably wouldn't have enough people with access (enough market) to make it a preferred option for service providers.

Bigby Wolf In the TMP Dawghouse03 Dec 2019 12:16 p.m. PST

Who is being denied access?

Doh … those who can't "currently" afford it … for whatever reason / for a multitude of reasons / through circumstances not necessarily of their own making … ?

Deleted by Moderator

Wolfhag03 Dec 2019 1:54 p.m. PST

Doesn't a cell phone count as an internet connection?

Shouldn't we be using the word "subsidized" as in paid for by someone else? Materialistic goods and services are never really free. All it really means is the real cost is hidden and people are rarely held accountable to control the real costs.

I think etotheipi is right, we probably can't afford "free".

Free flu shots? How free are they really? Who is covering the cost of the location and qualified personnel administrating the shots?
link

In California, we have "free" K-12 education. So why do I have my house assessed for property taxes that I'm told pay each year for education?

Wolfhag

Bigby Wolf In the TMP Dawghouse03 Dec 2019 2:30 p.m. PST

Really, Wolfhag?
It seems like you "lot" are actually scared of "helping folk" …

von Schwartz03 Dec 2019 5:37 p.m. PST

Didn't the Obama phones solve all the problems of internet access like they were promised? They all had internet access, but I guess they used up too much of their data plans checking their Facebook accounts, watching YouTube videos, online shopping, and surfing porn. And lets get back to the issue that ALL public libraries have "free" internet, so lets not be naïve and "pretend" to be "helping folk".

Stryderg03 Dec 2019 6:05 p.m. PST

Bigby Wolf, you've got it a bit wrong there, sir.
(Not to speak for Wolfhag, only myself) I prefer to chose who I help (based on my understanding of the level of need, and how much impact my charity will have, ie. ROI). I do not prefer to be forced to provide funds to bloated bureaucracies and let them decide how my charity should be allocated. I don't trust them that much and I've seen far too much waste along that route.

VCarter Supporting Member of TMP04 Dec 2019 5:59 a.m. PST

Nothing is free. How much of your money are you will to spend so that Fat Freddy can sit on his sofa all day, getting stoned, and surfing for porn?

Wolfhag04 Dec 2019 8:08 a.m. PST

Stryderg,
Yes, we help who I think deserves it the most and we get the best ROI. Secular and church groups I'm affiliated with help homeless centers (but I do not give cash to homeless on the street), sonogram machines to pregnancy centers, Toys for Tots and Christmas parties for kids, disable home centers, Coats for Kids, family food drives (donations from supermarkets), wheelchairs for veterans groups and VA Centers and a few others. Even though many of the people we help are breaking laws, we still help them if they have the need.

Two things we don't do: get the government involved applying for grants or donate money to large organizations that have people on the payroll making $200 USDk or more a year. It may look "free" to the people on the receiving end but there are people that donate many hours of their free time, time is money.

Wolfhag

dapeters04 Dec 2019 1:24 p.m. PST

"Nothing is free. How much of your money are you will to spend so that Fat Freddy can sit on his sofa all day, getting stoned, and surfing for porn?"

Small Potatoes we had nearly 150 years of slight of hand, "look at the SOB steeling a slice of bread."

VCarter Supporting Member of TMP04 Dec 2019 1:50 p.m. PST

I must apologize to Fat Freddy. My post only applies to productive members of society who actually pay taxes.

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP05 Dec 2019 8:14 a.m. PST

Doh … those who can't "currently" afford it …

Got it. Those who currently can't afford $0. USD

Personal logo Choctaw Supporting Member of TMP05 Dec 2019 8:24 a.m. PST

No new taxes. Nothing is free and having internet service is not a right. It is simply a privilege like driving a car. Many people walk and ride bikes because they can't afford a car. It's called life.

Wolfhag05 Dec 2019 12:40 p.m. PST

Choctaw,
Why raise taxes when you can print $1 USD trillion of money putting the people further into debt in one year. I've heard very few complaints from them.

What a concept, giving "free" things to people by paying for it with monopoly money.

Wolfhag

dapeters05 Dec 2019 12:41 p.m. PST

So really it about what we get for are taxes.

von Schwartz08 Dec 2019 5:27 p.m. PST

"Our" taxes

Don't ya love it, we're giving tax breaks, i.e., refunds to people who don't pay any taxes. What is a refund on $0 USD?

dapeters09 Dec 2019 12:50 p.m. PST

Yes Von Schwartz and with your tax savings you can lobby/buy more government and get even more money.

von Schwartz09 Dec 2019 4:11 p.m. PST

Who said that I was getting a tax refund? Hell, I'm the one paying the TAXES, do I ever get a refund? About 40 years ago I think I got a $800 USD refund, BFD!

dapeters10 Dec 2019 9:38 a.m. PST

Von Schwartz, I was agreeing with you and not speaking of you personally. Yes as a country we get upset about folks who steal pennies but ignore the folks who rob billions from us.

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP10 Dec 2019 11:06 a.m. PST

Glup!…

Amicalement
Armand

von Schwartz10 Dec 2019 6:05 p.m. PST

Sorry, just a bit testy.

Down here in Flori'da' I know personally a number of people who pay no taxes, at all, yet they receive as much as $10,000 USD in tax returns. Then when their "tax return' check is late they pitch a fit.

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