"The Alamo defenders" Topic

Being a huge fan of all things Alamo, I have often pondered this question and thought the great minds here on TMP Could weigh in with your valued opinions.

If the defenders had been offered a chance on day 12 off the siege to come out with their hands up and they would be allowed safe passage home as long as they signed an allegiance to Mexico and Santa Anna -- would they have:

1. Walked out grateful for the chance to return home to hearth and home?
2. Not trusted Santa Anna's promise and remained in the fort with hope of relief?
3. Regardless of any offer, hope, or trust factor remained steadfast in the crumbling mission until the end too fulfill their duty to the bitter end?

Your valued input please?

Thanks
Russ Dunaway

I think some of them after 12 days may have agreed with surrender as long as the deguello had never been played. Otherwise, no chance since they knew death awaited after surrender.

Yes, but Santa Anna had personally gave them a "2nd chance?"

I find it hard to believe they would sign such an allegiance.

But by the 12th I think they would have known their situation was desperate and they would be overwhelmed by superior numbers. So I think there is a very good chance they would have accepted.

I deeply doubt that the entire garrison would have done anything unless there was a consensus that what they were doing was consistent with their sense of dignity. No portion of the garrison would have left the remainder behind. If the Line in the Sand story was true, the behavior of a mercenary survivor of the Russian nightmare should not be considered representative.

I don't think the garrison could have been induced to accept less than Honors of War. They being allowed to depart under arms, with standards, and so many days head start. After 12 days, they might well have bought that.

Of course, they'd likely have marched out into another Goliad.

Lies to traitors are as nothing.

HMS Exeter +1. Maintaining one's honor was more prevalent in those days. Having held out for 11 days, I could see Travis considering honor and duty was served, and accepting that offer. Otherwise, no deal.

Supposedly Travis tried to negotiate a surrender through a the Mexican wife of an American, Juana Navarro de Alsbury, but the offer was rebuffed by Santa Anna. Filisola's book, quoted in Eyewitness to the Alamo, says

"On that same evening (March 5th) about nightfall it was reported that Travis Barnet, commander of the enemy garrison, through the intermediary of a woman, proposed to the general in chief that they would surrender arms fort with everybody in it with the only condition of saving his life and that of his comrades in arms. However, the answer had come back that they should surrender unconditionally, without guarantees, not even of life itself"

It should be noted that Filisola wasn't there at the time and was highly critical of Santa Anna, and Mrs Alsbury never confirmed the the story

Santa Ana had murdered all of those from Goliad. No one could trust his word. If the Alamo garrison wanted to leave, they could have infiltrated out in small groups over time, but they did not. Every day they held out meant more time for Sam Houston and they were willing to pay for that time with their lives.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek
Bunker Talk blog

Were the men in the Alamo even aware of Goliad?

Goliad was after the Alamo, so it couldn't factor in to anyone's decision.

The Goliad Massacre was on March 27th, 1836. The siege of the Alamo was February 23 – March 6, 1836. So the defenders of the Alamo were already three weeks dead before Santa Anna executed the more than 400 Texians under Colonel Fannin who had surrendered after the battle of Coleto.
Like Mike says: Santa Anna could not be trusted to treat the Texians as POW's. He saw them as rebels who should (and so were) shot. This happened first at the Alamo and then at Goliad.

My question as to the Alamo defenders knowing about Goliad was tongue and cheek humor.

Russ Dunawsu

IMO, your 2nd option is what Travis had chosen in February according to his "Victory or Death" letters.

I dunno Russ. But you might want to read A Time to Stand: The Epic of the Alamo by Walter Lord if haven't already read it.

Bill

Read it already Bill. My question was to cause dialogue as I do not really think there is a definitive answer? Who knows what is in the heart of man?
There is the power of cause and honor to consider?
There is the very powerful instinct of survival to consider?

Regards
Russ Dunaway

Who knows what is in the heart of man?

The Shadow knows.

…somebody had to…

Of course they would have surrendered. They were not insane.