"Pinned down, for real" Topic

Seriously, what is it like to be pinned down?

Do you have a realistic expectation of rescue? Does it affect you?

Thanks

There are probably too many variables to give a real answer. My son said he was in a 45-minute long firefight with the enemy about 400 yards away. There was no immediate threat of being assaulted or flanked and some guys were taking a smoke break, checking for cell phone connections or catching some Z's.

Another time, in an intense close-range firefight, he was pinned down in a courtyard for a while with a sucking chest wound and played dead. He didn't know he was shot until the firefight was over about 30 minutes later.

Personally, it depends a lot on the Squad Leader's leadership ability and communication. As long as you are shooting back morale tends to stay high. If everyone has their heads down, not shooting, bad leadership C&C and threat of flanking or an assault morale will go down pretty quickly.

Wolfhag

I can't speak to the military situation, but I was working as a security guard at a facility that was on strike back in the '70's. One of the strikers went off the deep end and set himself up as a sniper, shooting at anybody he saw. He actually wounded two of his buddies on the picket line and put several rounds into the guard shack before the county sheriff deputies managed to take him into custody.

The whole thing lasted about ten hours and was the scariest situation I've ever been in. Unlike a military pin down, I did know generally how things were going, but I wasn't allowed to return fire, and I didn't dare turn on the lights in the guard shack (I guess it's basic human nature that scary is even scarier in the dark).

You might find this thread useful:
TMP link

Another one:

TMP link

My apologies, I started typing then thought, "I've done all this before." ;)

V/R,
Jack

Wolf +1 …

It generally is only a temporary situation. You have other units and supporting fires to get you "unpinned". The most powerful weapon a Ldr has is his radio. He can call for fire support from many assets. You are not alone or forgotten.

A comrade of mine told us the other day of when his UH-1 was shot down in Vietnam. He managed to autorotate and get the bird on the ground safely. Along with his Co-pilot, Crew Chief and 7 Soldiers it carried. They were taking fire for a nearby wooded ridge. Pinned down as they really could not go anywhere without drawing fire. He simply called in Artillery fires on the area the fire was coming from. That ended the enemy fire and they were soon recovered by 3 more UH-1s and a CH-47 to recover the downed Huey.

And they probably had AH-1 Gunships covering their recovery and withdrawal. As well as FA on stand by. Just in case they started to take more enemy fire.

That is almost a "text book" example/operation.

I knew Just Jack was lurking out there and would join in on this one! I think he's been pinned down once or twice.

I think a big factor in being under fire is your training for the initial reaction which most games are missing. If ambushed from close range (25-50m) we were trained to assault into the ambushers. We were told if you survived the first 2 seconds of an ambush you had a pretty good chance of getting through it if you did the right thing. The wrong thing was to get pinned down/suppressed in the kill zone. Small unit leadership, training, and combat experience come into play.

I read an account that a green US Army unit crossing a field in Europe was taken under sniper fire. They all hit the deck/pinned down. The sniper proceeded to pick all of them off one by one. Carlos Hathcock did the same thing to a green NVA Company crossing an open area after picking off the two leaders first.

If you are pinned down make sure you are out of the enemy LOS.

If you watch some combat videos from A'stan and Iraq you'll see guys behind cover popping up and firing and then moving to a different position. They feel safe as there is no immediate danger. Are they pinned down? Could they move if they really wanted to?

I think being "pinned down" is hard to define. It could be you are totally "Hunkered Down" and not shooting back because you've lost the volume of fire battle or because you could move but it's just not worthwhile. At the squad level, I'd think the hardest thing to do is to get troops moving under fire unless it's a desperation/survival situation.

I use a "Move Under Fire" rule where a unit being fired at must pass an "Aggressiveness Check". If they fail the initial roll the leader attached (squad leader or LT) can add their leadership rating to "motivate" the troops to move out but the leader will have to take a causality check. This allows poorly trained troops to perform better because of good leadership but puts the leader in more danger. I don't use initiative rules.

I also use a "Reaction Check" when an infantry unit is first taken under fire. It's the player's choice to hit the deck and return fire, fall back towards cover or Hunker Down and be safe but not return fire. To advance under fire they need to pass an Aggressiveness Check and may take more causalities.

Sometimes players will voluntarily have a unit Hunker Down (effectively pinned but safe from small arms direct fire) and wait for support just behind them to engage the enemy or have a light mortar attached start a barrage. That's what Scouts (normally the expendable FNG's) are for. Pretty much what Legion stated.

At the LAW range, a guy accidentally fired one and we got hit with the backblast, I hit the deck. Personally, I've only been shot at/ambushed at once, I ran and lived to fight another day. During a training exercise at Quantico some 2nd LT at the Basic School threw a WP grenade at us instead of smoke, I ran again. I'm getting pretty good at it. Burning WP makes a weird sizzling sound as it is falling through the air around you. Being "pinned down" was not an option, in either case, I was in survival mode.

Wolfhag

I appreciate your replies, thank you.

Sorry to hear your son took one, Wolfgang, and trust he made a full and speedy recovery.

Very interesting, I take from this that artillery support can end that situation for the better, aggressiveness in the first few minutes of an ambush could win through and prevent a pinned situation, snipers are always a danger.

Thanks for the links to earlier discussions, Just Jack, and I like your Aggressiveness Check option, Wolfhag.

Yeah Wolfhag, I took a look at this one and another one (the MG fire post) and thought, I'd love to help if I can, and started typing, then thought, I've written a whole bunch on this already.

So again, please forgive me Mr. Sea, I really would like to discuss, I just wanted to throw those out as kind of a starting point, if you'd like. Warning, there's a lot of info in those posts, you can get lost! ;)

V/R,
Jack

Wolf & Jack +2

I take from this that artillery support can end that situation for the better, aggressiveness in the first few minutes of an ambush could win through and prevent a pinned situation, snipers are always a danger.

Yes that is pretty accurate.

And another reason why I sent many of my troops to Sniper Training at Ft. Benning, GA when I was a Mech Co. Cdr …

sea rage,
Thanks. He's fine. He said an AK round ricocheted off the side of his SAPI plate and got hit mostly by fragments. It's amazing what adrenaline can do in an intense moment. He finished the firefight and interrogated his target EPOW but was short of breath. He said he felt like he'd pissed himself but it was blood around his crotch. He had to strip off his body armor to see where he was hit.

He got medivacked to Germany and they cleaned him up and super glued him shut. It was just one of the three lobes on the right side that collapsed so not really life-threatening. He had orders to go back to the Wounded Warrior Regiment in the US but instead hopped on a C-130 and went back to his unit which was pretty common. There is hardly a scar now.

He was in SigInt and always carried a radio with a big antenna so he was a prime target and was wounded three times and his body armor saved him another 2-3 times. He's 6'4" so qualified for a +2 hit bonus die roll modifier.

I sometimes call him "Flak Magnet". He still has about a dozen very small fragments in his back from an IED (hit a gap in his body armor) but they don't show up on the airport metal detectors. I think he wants to keep them as a souvenir. He's doing really well and has adapted back to being a civilian and going to school and really low-keyed about the whole thing. He is visiting me for our Marine Corps Birthday Cruise which should be fun.

Wolfhag

All's well. Good.

Enjoy your b'day cruise and if drinking is your thing (smile), cheers to you both. I salute you.

+1 !