"Best Rules for Ancients These Days?" Topic

I'm getting my shipment of Persians and Greeks from WoFun from their Kickstarter this week and wanted to give them a whirl. wofun-games.com/Antiquity

I have Warhammer Ancient Battles from way back with the Armies of Antiquity book, and also the Chariots Rampant article that extends Lion Rampant, but don't game this period that often so I'm not up on the latest.

Is there a recommended set rules that people enjoy for this period? I'm aware of the various DB incarnations, but I will have al large stack of these minis, so I want something that will allow me to really make use of them.

I prefer lighter rules over more complex ones, but something with enough meet to be interesting.

Thanks!

I would recommend To the Strongest. It is easy to learn, satisfying to play and feels right.

+1

What size are WoFun miniatures and bases?

For 18mm miniatures, I can heartily recommend Age of Hannibal by Greg Wagman from Little Wars TV:

link

AoH is designed for fighting large army-level battles from Classical Antiquity in 2-3 hours. The rules are simple, straightforward and tremendous fun to play.

In the SE USA, there is a large group who are tournament club players use Art du Guerre,war. They also have played Fields of Glory, DBM in the cycle. Other groups play SAGA or Hail Caesar. Several DBA tournament players in the area.

I like Age of Hannibal. You can find out more about this rule set at Littlewarstv.com
John

I would take a look at the "Triumph!" rules. They are produced by Washington Grand Company. Armies are anywhere from 12-24 stands total, fast play, and easy to understand.

Wofun comes in two scales- 18mm and 28mm. I went with 18mm to try them out.

At 18mm scale, WoFun gives you a range of base options to play from:

6 slots per base:
30x15mm

4 slots per base
30x20mm
30x30mm
40x20mm
40x30mm

3 slots per base
30mm round
30mmx15mm

2 slots per base
30x30mm

1 slot per base
15x15mm
20x20mm
30mm round

A side note- Any rules that are fully dependent on you having the proper base size turn me right off. For that reason, I can see that To The Strongest already appeals.

Triumph is great if you like smaller battles. We are using Art de La Guerre for the larger ones

Like you , I started with Warhammer ancients.
I now use "War & Conquest" by Rob Broom – who was part of WAB team.
I am exclusively a soloist these days – but I like it.

Here is a recent after action report:
link

Pulse of Battle by Brent Oman. We have used it many times for the Punic Wars. Great set of rules!

Triumph works well for small to large battles, but does require standard base widths.

So if you are looking for something that has no basing requirements, to the Strongest or Command and Colors might be better options.

Both use fixed movement grids (one hexes, one squares) so the basing is not critical.

I have not played to the strongest, but Command and Colors is not bad, one tweak needed in my opinion, count light troop losses at half value or you run into the old, "I killed all your skirmishers, therefore I win issue"

Nothing comming close to Warhammer ancients has come close to it. Still by far the best rules. The fact that people tend to try out other rules is based on novelty. Amazingly nothing worth the original has come forth out of of all of these….

For solo gaming I use Commands and Colors Ancients combat resolution with DBA command dice rather than the cards.

I do it like this; Both sides roll one 6 sided pip dice at the beginning of each turn. If both sides roll a natural doubles then roll the dice again. The winner gets to add the doubles score to his command pips. And by spending an extra pip a unit may either move twice or fire twice.

Works great for solo play. I don't need to try to manage a hand of cards in a fair manner for both sides.

I have also played where I start with two cards and discard one to use each turn, drawing a replacement card. The other side draws two cards and plays them both, drawing two new cards each turn. While enjoyable, I felt like the game was playing me rather than me playing the game.

Hail Caesar is another excellent, widely played rule set with very flexible basing. Written by Rick Priestley and published by Warlord Games.

link

HC was designed with 28mm miniatures in mind, but is easily adaptable for smaller sized figures.

I agree with BelgianRay.

I enjoy Impetus both regular and Basic.

Christopher

ADLG. English language print run repeatedly sold out so only available as PDF at the moment (for 5 euros) until the next edtion is released, likely in next couple of months I believe.

While Dba was originally written for 12 stands on his side, I have played games with 50 or more stands of figures on the side, and six players. It's light but still with plenty of meat.

Troy for example,

To the Strongest!

Yes, I would also recommend you take a look at DBA version 3.

Phil

If you want to use lots of miniatures take a look at Mortem et Gloriam.

Over years I've played a lot of DBM, less of DBMM, tried ADLG (and decided it was too similar and not sufficiently ‘better' than DBM). I've enjoyed ‘To The Strongest' – well worth trying).

As Bobgnar says, DBA also lends itself to much larger games as well.

Impetus – the rules are good and fun to play and the based units look good with opportunities to make them like dioramas

I really like the look of those Wofun minis. I'd be curious to see a picture of what you get!

Another vote for DBA3!

No shortage of excellent rules for ancients!

We still use WRG 6th.

To the Strongest! link

We are playing Triumph!, TtS and C&CA.

Another vote for DBA 3.

Historical Battles work very well in DBA 3.

So well, that I produced a scenario book for it…

link

"Great Battle of History for DBA 3"

Joe Collins

Impetus. Good looking units, looks like an ancient tile battle ( for what we know;). Use magnets and under bzses. More flexible to go for skirmishes if you want.
It also depends which size of fighting you want?

Like BelgianRay and 10 Fingered Jack say:

Stick with WAB.

If you want to try something else out there's a variety. Often trying various scales (ie large army feel).

There is a reason some rulesets last the test of time.

Yet, the fact there are so many may show nothing's perfect. Or the power of marketing combined with the fickleness of men …

Another vote for: To the Strongest!

I'm amazed there are players who consider Warhammer Ancients the final word in rules for this era! Still, whatever does it for you I suppose.

My favourite is MeG. Looks great with plenty of models and a fun game.

Martin

I would not say final word, but a very good word. One that scales well (within limits) and can be fun to play and that you can find resources for and players who are familiar with the ruleset (any Warhammer players can kind of jump right in).

There are lots of amazing rule sets out there, but it seems many are often very similar with a minor tweek.

I'm amazed how many rule sets there are. Especially when one considers how rules for chess or checkers, for instance, do not change. They are fine as it is. Every once in a while someone will come along and try an innovation on the games and it fades away but the original rules continue in popularity.

We do not have that in wargaming – unless one tries to argue for Warhammer (but with all the "editions" they come up with as a matter of corporate policy I'm not sure how strong of an argument that is).

Perhaps WRG rules, but they are more complex, to an extent.

With all the rules out there I'm not sure how anyone can try them all.

Perhaps the final word is finding some (or even just one) set of rules that you find fun and enjoyable.

Take the time with your new figures (they look pretty cool, by the way, and thank you for the link, I had not heard of the company before) and try all sorts of rules from skirmish to mass battles!

Since they are all ready to go, you won't have to take time to assemble, paint, base, etc. All the things that take so long I think they deter many potential new players. With both sides, you can easily invite people over to play.

Perhaps the final word is finding some (or even just one) set of rules that you find fun and enjoyable.

This.

I would say look at DBMM 2.1. Yes, it has lots of stuff/chrome in the rules and I say it makes them deep. There is now a Facebook page with 2 videos to help beginners. Also, before the yahoo groups closes you can get flow charts to help with the complex parts that were the result of writing styles that some people have difficulty with. Keep in mind that in most games you will only use some modifiers and once you've got them memorized for your army, the thing runs flawlessly. So deep, subtle, and thought provoking I still say. Of course, it's not for everyone I grant you.

Since opinions have been requested I would offer also a plug for Impetus. An innovative design that provides much fun. Also that large dioramic basing is inspiring to look at.

Take a look at this site (found in a quick search) for an example of the Impetus basing approach. The units look like real units. Most DBx basing doesn't give that effect (this is my one real complaint against ADLG.)

link

I would suggest doing a search for Ancient rule sets on TMP since this question has been asked many times. More details are found in previous discussions.

When you play C&C are you using miniatures?

Quite a few people use miniatures, with C&C. It can look very effective; this is Zama, back in 2010.

Salutations, Mr. TGerritsen !

Q – Looked at the WoFun site, still wondering how large their figures are, how many in a set ? Looks like they're updating the old German 'flats' concept.

My opinion is that if there are people in your area playing ancient miniatures, learn the rules they like. Better is gaming mediocre rules with good friends that the reverse.

If you're trying to introduce people to wargaming 'from scratch', I'd suggest _Triumph_. Uncomplicated but reasonably realistic, and inexpensive. Good luck.

Would also suggest checking out local conventions (where doth thou dwell?), watching demonstration games.

Sword and Spear are a great game that is pretty easy to learn. Give it a look and see if it looks like something that you'd enjoy.

We're playing Basic Impetus and Impetus V2.

If you're interested in a demo of the Basic Impetus rules, we will have them in our vendor booth at Fall In (Nov. 15-17).

Griffins Lair

I would recommend Hail Caesar Rules. Hope it helps.

As always, comments are appreciated.

10mm Wargaming

My 10mm Wargaming

Take care

Andy

To the Strongest is my favorite. As a matter of fact, you can use the great scenarios available for Command and Colors with TtS Rules. You can either keep the hexes, or substitute a square grid.

ADLG obviously