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"Possible M4 replacement is causing gun enthusiasts to" Topic


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Tango0117 Oct 2019 4:26 p.m. PST

…call bullpup

"Eugene Stoner purists are no doubt crying in private after General Dynamics Ordnance & Tactical Systems showcased their take on the Next Generation Squad Weapon program at the 2019 AUSA conference, feeling the sting of seeing a bullpup rifle being considered as a replacement for the M4 carbine.

Generally unpopular amongst firearms enthusiasts in the United States, bullpup rifles have not always had it easy on American shores. In fact, there is only a small following of bullpup fans, both in the military and civilian arms sectors.

Imagine the surprise when detractors of the compact weapon design discovered that GDOTS has opted to push the bullpup design on the U.S. Army, in hopes of winning the bid to replace the aging M4…"
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Thresher0117 Oct 2019 5:54 p.m. PST

Looks like a decent design to me, and the 6.8mm is a step up.

The suppressor looks a little bulkier than I would have thought, and overly short. Hopefully, it is easily removable and attached, so it doesn't adversely affect muzzle velocity and accuracy when not needed.

This type of design makes sense in the close-quarters fighting I suspect a lot of our troops find themselves these days.

DJCoaltrain17 Oct 2019 6:30 p.m. PST

Black guns are not in my wheelhouse. I can use them, but I favor firearms between 1860 and 1899. I used the M-16 Feb 69 to Aug 70. I don't use it anymore, nor any models since. Not my cup of tea. However, I think it a strategic error for US military services to use a firearm not made in the USA.

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP18 Oct 2019 2:26 a.m. PST

The good thing about a bullpup design is you still have a long barrel. But it's primarily housed in upper receiver. The long barrel means no lost of range or accuracy. That e.g. like the CAR-15 had. IIRC the shorter "carbine" barrel reduced range and accuracy by about 20-25%(?).

Also the shorter bullpup design is better for getting in and out of vehicles, AFVs, helicopters, etc. As well as operating in any closed terrain. E.g. Urban, thick jungle, etc.

I own an AR-15 with the collapsible CAR-15 stock. I've had it even before I went on active duty in '79. The AR-15/M-16 is the weapon I'm most familiar with and getting ammo was no problem while on active duty, '79-'90 and USAR '91.

Doc Yuengling22 Oct 2019 12:12 p.m. PST

The M4 fit tactical doctrine with a shorter barrel as it would still be accurrate within normal contact range, which is generally less than 250 meters. With its shorter barrel, close quaters sighting system, and foregrip it became a more versatile weapon.

I qualified on the M16A2, and M14 in the Navy 87-98, and Army Guard 98-04. My unit recieved the M4 about the time I got out – not wanting to run around as a medic type.
Funny, they also upgraded that year from Alice to Molle systems too just in time to go to Iraq.

I own a civilian AR15 carbine that I have dressed like the M4 with sighting and grips.

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