"Neil Thomas Rules movement/fire ranges and unit sizes" Topic

At what number of units per side do these rules break down? Neil suggests relatively small battles but if the number of units were augmented, what experiences do people have for the mechanics being able to handle larger games?

Also, unit size. I already have some armies done up, if I wanted to use larger units (more stands than Neil recommends) does it mess up the game balance or does it not really matter if it all remains proportionate?

I know that part of the charm are the smallish armies but I had to ask; push the envelope and shock the monkey and all that.

Also, maybe I missed something but it seems the rules are written for 15mm figures. Are we supposed to increase by 50% or double ranges and movement allowances for 28mm figures?

I tend to stick with the suggested army sizes, maybe abut bigger. One my pals gaming groups regularly plays double or triple size though. It just takes longer.

I don't think adding more stands would break things, although it changes the relationship with single stand units (artillery).

How about working out the ground scale based on the ranges given which in turn gives you the frontages and hence the scale of unit represented ???

I play 25mm FPW with the 19th Century rules and use the distances as written. Which rule set are you looking at?

I think the 19th Century set is fine up to 20 units a side but slows down due to saving throws…

Mike

I've always used the distances as written with 25mm figures.

There is nothing to stop you using units that are not based as per the book. Just count them as having four ‘strength points' or ‘lives' or whatever, rather than physical stands. My Infantry are 24 figures strong, cavalry 12, skirmishers 8 and artillery 2 guns per battery. Infantry form line 2 figures deep and column 3. It looks better to me that way and doesn't interfere with the distances (they are basic Old School measurements anyway, so originally meant for 20/25mm figures).

I agree with Black Hat that 20 is around the maximum one player can handle and that is pushing it. I suppose it depends how much time you have available. If I had my own games room and was retired I could do 100 per side. Personally, for more than 16 units I would use the One Hour rules or grab more warm bodies and give them eight units each.

For this time period I tend to shy away from systems where movement and charge excede rifle range.

I like the rules but find it difficult to represent pike and shot units with only a frontage of 2 bases , just doesn't look right for the later Renaissance . Much better using three bases for frontage . Lots of potential in the basic system for a fun game but the appearance of a unit is important to me . I'm not expecting four horned Tercio s , that would be nice but pike in the centre with two pike sleeves seems reasonable . I realise that this wasn't always the case but it's what I be been led to believe . I could of course rebase my whole renaissance collection but that really wouldn't be fun .

Jethro3, that's my question, does using larger pike/shot blocks than the skimpy ones suggested in the rules set throw off play balance?

I would imagine the answer is yes but I was hoping for some experience in the matter.

Seem like brilliant rules though.

The Intro book is in the case behind me, so I've grabbed it to see what the Pike & Shot rules say. He has rules for mixed unit casualty removal, so I would follow that.

Otherwise just do as I mentioned above and base units how you wish and use strength points to represent the uneven mix of pike to shot I.e. on a 3/3 unit have three strength points of pike and three of shot. Lose four casualties to fire and the number of shot drops to two etc etc. If you keep to roughly the same base area then it won't make an iota of difference.

PS
If you look at my 1866 Austrians here they are not based ‘by the book' but what is aesthetically pleasing to me. It still works:

link

Here are my Napoleonics ditto:

link

Thanks Jeffers l will definitely give that a try

I played Waterloo in 54mm using his Napoleonic rules. I had six players, each side had three autonomous "armies", each with one artillery piece, two or more cavalry units and the rest infantry. It played very well. We fought to a conclusion in about five hours.