deadhead | 01 Oct 2019 6:18 a.m. PST |
Well Gringos40 Marines in Hue anyway. I have not shown all the figures eg the bazooka team and indeed, not one of these figures is based yet. But I am getting there. My favourite photo is the last one, as oddly all the best photos from Nam were monochrome
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Martian Root Canal | 01 Oct 2019 6:26 a.m. PST |
Those photos (and miniatures/painting) are amazing! |
deadhead | 01 Oct 2019 6:31 a.m. PST |
Many thanks for that. I have every one copied in B&W and that totally transforms them. loads more that I took today and many more backgrounds not used yet. All but the corrugated sheeting (Cholon) are Hue, either then or now |
Choctaw | 01 Oct 2019 7:24 a.m. PST |
Oh man, these photos are greatness. You did an outstanding job with the minis and the photographs. |
Legion 4 | 01 Oct 2019 7:56 a.m. PST |
!!!!!!!!!!! |
79thPA | 01 Oct 2019 8:24 a.m. PST |
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JMcCarroll | 01 Oct 2019 8:32 a.m. PST |
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TBeyer | 01 Oct 2019 8:41 a.m. PST |
Those are incredible pics, both the painted figures and the background scenery are very impressive. In the 3rd picture from the top, what is the first figure on the right holding – it looks like some kind of SMG, not an M16? |
Oberlindes Sol LIC | 01 Oct 2019 8:48 a.m. PST |
Amazing photography of amazing miniatures and terrain. Thanks for posting. |
Pete W | 01 Oct 2019 8:49 a.m. PST |
Those all look amazing Deadhead – great stuff. That second images makes me thing of the Surfin' Bird ! P |
jammy four | 01 Oct 2019 8:56 a.m. PST |
the transition from Naps to Nam has gone rather smoothly Liam really tremendous work on the figures and the backgrounds are inspiring..well done old bean!! regards Ged gringo40s.com gringo40s.blogspot.com |
jammy four | 01 Oct 2019 8:58 a.m. PST |
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deadhead | 01 Oct 2019 9:22 a.m. PST |
many thanks to all. Really appreciated. Yes the SMG is a Grease Gun. Named so because it looked just like an industrial…well grease gun. Replaced the Thompson in USA service in 1944 and, like the Tommy gun its predecessor, or the M1 Carbine, still saw service up to Vietnam. The moulded detail only became apparent as I was painting them. Look at the kneeling figures at the very top. Their jungle boots have the diagonal reinforcing strip of webbing at the ankles. Heck they even have a pair of holes for the brass drainage perforations and laces! OK, second from bottom, I painted them on the outer side by mistake. Right hand figure. Surfin'Bird makes me think of a source of backgrounds I had not considered! I have only gone for real Hue pics. Hollywood Hue! Several figures I have not shown and who knows if we will see more (hint, hint, hint, please) |
deadhead | 01 Oct 2019 11:55 a.m. PST |
OK it is the Pacific War, but there were such helmet covers worn in Hue. How good is this on the helmet covers? We all strive for perfection….but these totally beat mine TMP link |
Tango01 | 01 Oct 2019 12:17 p.m. PST |
Chapeaux pour vous mon cher ami!. (smile) Amicalement Armand
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deadhead | 01 Oct 2019 12:42 p.m. PST |
(un sourire), mon vieux. Murky bucket commes les French says quande they wants to say fanks….plus forte! |
Legion 4 | 01 Oct 2019 2:38 p.m. PST |
Yes, the M3 "Grease Gun" was still being used by some of our US ARMY AFV crews in '84 ! |
huron725 | 01 Oct 2019 3:29 p.m. PST |
Really cool. Love the paint job. I think I'm going to invest in these miniatures. |
SgtGuinness | 01 Oct 2019 4:25 p.m. PST |
Outstanding job mixing the 2 mediums! It looks as if they are there in The Nam. |
Greylegion | 01 Oct 2019 6:35 p.m. PST |
That M3 was still being used by VTR crews at Ft. Hood up to 1990 too. That's the last time I actually saw and handled one. |
ccmatty | 01 Oct 2019 6:38 p.m. PST |
Deadhead, I have long enjoyed reading your posts. I now can enjoy your painting and artwork. What a gem! You have inspired me to explore reading and learning about this era and this conflict. I was born at its height but know little about it. Thank you for inspiring me. |
ccmatty | 01 Oct 2019 6:42 p.m. PST |
I mean you painted the watch! Come on!!!! Awesome. |
Skarper | 01 Oct 2019 11:05 p.m. PST |
The black and white photo is most effective. It's a cool illusion. |
deadhead | 02 Oct 2019 1:48 a.m. PST |
I agree entirely about the B & W photo. It is how all the best known still photography of VN was seen. It also helps with getting the figures to merge in with the background. I always tend to overdo either bases or background photos. Above the bets colour ones are the simple two in front of a Hue Citadel wall. The street firing scene I must repost in B & W. It does look like a newsreel still. The watch? easy enough. White or silver face and gloss varnish. Some have a brass buckle on the wrist but in not one can it now be seen. It was painting the hands that beat me. Fortunately all my Marines smoke Marlboro, which is easy to do. One Lucky Strike I gave up and converted. Thanks to all who responded. Had not realised it would stir up so much interest (indeed that there were so many following this Message Board) |
ScottS | 02 Oct 2019 8:17 a.m. PST |
That's some beautiful work, deadhead! |
15mm and 28mm Fanatik | 02 Oct 2019 10:52 a.m. PST |
These recreations display a great eye for perspective and depth. They should be entered in a photo contest. Really. |
deadhead | 02 Oct 2019 12:48 p.m. PST |
Well thanks again to both of you. As a UK schoolkid back then, I have some abiding memories of Hue/Tet/Khe Sanh. One more figure I have told Ged he must do and he promises me that he will. Totally iconic. Say no more…Oh say.. no more (it was a UK TV series). The photography is much easier than you might think. I do have my youngest son's laptop with Photoshop, but that is complicated+++. Find a photo, print 6x8 ins, matt finish (still reflects spotlights). Bring in masses of lighting. (that does produce a shine off the most matt surfaces though). Right. Camera, tripod, cable shutter or two second delay…you cannot press that button for these close ups. Depth of focus is 100% everything. The rest you can process later with modern technology. So f27 or even f 32 with camera set to AV priority. I use a Pentax istD S that is 15 years old (at least). I recently gave away to a charity shop a Yashica Dental Eye that had a ring flash, motor drive, macro lens to die for etc. I bought it for £800.00 GBP in the late 80s. It took 35mm film. Now worth about £30.00 GBP on eBay Off the subject. My lighting is a mixture of Tungsten/Halogen/Daylight bulbs. No reason. I could afford to replace but somehow……the colours are not absolutely right in the photos. The helmet covers are better in reality and they were the biggest challenge. I still love monochrome. I know they say the War in Vietnam was fought in colour, but, as a kid, that is not how I remember it;
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Legion 4 | 02 Oct 2019 1:15 p.m. PST |
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15mm and 28mm Fanatik | 02 Oct 2019 1:33 p.m. PST |
I know they say the War in Vietnam was fought in colour, but, as a kid, that is not how I remember it B&W or more accurately gray scale is fine and lends photos a certain vintage charm. With color (or "colour" as you blokes across the pond love your u's so much) you can introduce imperfections like washed out/faded colo(u)rs and other artifacts to make them look old. Photo editing software allows you to do just about anything these days. But I think the bright and vibrant color pics look great, especially the one following the fire team moving cautiously down the tree-lined boulevard. The scaling of the background and surroundings also look very natural, allowing the marines to blend into their environment seamlessly. |
jammy four | 02 Oct 2019 3:56 p.m. PST |
another splendid effort Liam see what you mean about the black and white,,,still im with 28mm Fanatik..the Colour pictures have the edge every time IMHO! Regards Ged gringo40s.com gringo40s.blogspot.com |
Skarper | 02 Oct 2019 8:30 p.m. PST |
All the pictures look great….just the monochrome ones remind me more of the photos taken at the time. I think the colour process was more time consuming so many photojournalists used B/W to be faster to the market. Some also felt it looked more 'artistic.' I think I read this in Michael Herr's Dispatches book. Memory fades though so I could well be making this up! B/W photography is still amazing anyway. |
15mm and 28mm Fanatik | 02 Oct 2019 9:27 p.m. PST |
Depends on the effect you're going for. The black-and-whites give the scenes a historical archival flavor. The color shots really make the subject (Gringo 40's already characterful minis) pop out and bring them to life. I think I described deadhead's pics as "cinematic" in one of his earlier threads before. |
jammy four | 03 Oct 2019 1:06 a.m. PST |
Skarper and Fabatik….it was era of brilliant and brave photographers…Leroy,Page.Stone.to name a few and hurtles me back to an era nuch ingrained in my mind…so the range was a natural step for me with my previous Tonkin range ..looking forward to more of Liams work! regards Ged www,gringo40s.com gringo40s.blogspot.com |
deadhead | 03 Oct 2019 1:22 a.m. PST |
I am no Don McCullen or Robert Capa but I do think it is great fun messing with photos on a PC these days. 28mm Fanatik is so right. You can dramatically sharpen an image to create that artistic contrast, you can "vignette" to fade out the edges, convert to B/W or at least dramatically reduce colour saturation…..but he is right. My photos are more like what the modern cinema portrays than the colo(u)r photos at the time. I'm with Skarper though. B/W still has the edge. I know it does not show the figures off quite so well but….. Ged is right. I must use up the rest of my backgrounds and esp show the bazooka team
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Bismarck | 03 Oct 2019 6:03 a.m. PST |
Deadhead, These are beyond words, both the painted figs and the "camera work". In regard to your earlier question about helmet covers. The Mitchell pattern cover was predominantly shades of green, and a little brown. Mine had no shades of tan on it. If you google Mitchell pattern helmet cover, you can find tons of pics. Repros and even period covers are available for reenactors from several sources. You sure do some outstanding work, as the Gringo40 folks do as well with their figures. |
deadhead | 03 Oct 2019 8:04 a.m. PST |
I am indebted to you. I had no idea it even had a name let alone the same as my wife's clan. Googling produced far more images than I had earlier found for US helmet Vietnam. I agonised over the helmet cover. It is so distinctively lighter and a brighter green than the uniform (with the exception of the boots, but here I had a pair to work from). The variety of appearances is clearly down to age, wear and tear, dust and UV light. They varied from a light tan with almost no discernable pattern to a slightly lurid Russian uniform green, overlaid with a darker green and few brown patches. Googling that Mitchell cover proved that! Thanks again While I can still edit, let me show the challenge to "getting it right". Colour photography so much depended on the 35 mm film used, lighting and above all reproduction in print. Much "warmer" colours in the lower one;
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15mm and 28mm Fanatik | 03 Oct 2019 8:07 a.m. PST |
Vietnam was the first war in color on "the telly." Maybe a compromise then. The colors don't have to be so vividly rendered and hi-res. Go for muted colors like on early color TV. Ever seen the colorized (or should I say colourised?) pics by Royston Leonard? link Color accuracy is limited by film technology at the time, so they're bound to be off-color. Here's a set of 54mm figures from K&C:
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deadhead | 03 Oct 2019 9:36 a.m. PST |
I did encounter those figures via the wonders of Google. Some poses are really good. It is so imaginative to have the lying figure looking back over his shoulder for example. The yellow overall cast did not work for me. As you say, so much depended on film quality and then printing. I was a huge Ektachrome 35mm slide film fan back in those complicated days. B & W slide film did exist but was hard to find. For X rays I used Kodak raid process copy film….every exposure took 14 seconds …but never ever failed |
15mm and 28mm Fanatik | 03 Oct 2019 11:50 a.m. PST |
The yellow overall cast did not work for me. That's probably because they followed the painting guide below and used WWII Russian uniform tan/khaki, which is a light mustard color.
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catavar | 03 Oct 2019 12:29 p.m. PST |
Ok. I admit for a second I thought the last pic, in B&W, was real. Duh. |
Bismarck | 03 Oct 2019 12:41 p.m. PST |
Deadhead, The first photo in your 8:04 3 Oct post was a tan side out WWII and Korea helmet cover. I remained on active reserve after coming back to the world in '69. The 782 gear and helmets and covers issued to Marine Reserve units were all still WWII issue. So it is entirely possible that some were worn in country. As to colors of the Mitchell, it too was reversible, but I never saw the tan side worn out. As with jungle utilities they faded quickly. Glad my first post helped. Couple other hints for you. The black leather "MacNamara" boot was worn by the Corps in the early days as were the OG107 cotton sateen utilities(USMC term for fatigues). These were the basic ones seen stateside since the jungle utilities were only authorized for Vietnam. The OG107s were similar to those shown on the US tv show Gomer Pyle. The M3 grease gun referred to earlier stayed in service until well in the late 80s! I worked with a West Point Grad who served in artillery in the army and it was his to&e weapon when he commanded a battery of M109s. I was amazed to see them still in use. I never saw one during my 13 months in country, but perhaps tankers were issued them. Again, your figs are too good to game with! If I could do anywhere close, they would sit proudly in a glass case to be admired! Look forward to more of your work. Sam |
deadhead | 03 Oct 2019 2:18 p.m. PST |
28mm F. That colour guide is really good, esp for the Helmet cover. For the uniform, beneath the flak jacket some one recently advised Vallejo German Uniform Green….and the moment I tried it on one figure with a wash and then highlights, I thought…OH YES….. Russian Uniform Green from Vallejo is perfect for French Artillery Green in 1815 and not bad for flak jackets, but dark earth on others worked better. Bismarck. That is brilliant I saw a film called Beach Red way back when. It is now totally forgotten but I thought it was amazing. The Marines wore that top helmet cover in that film and I have never forgotten it. I did wonder, as I said earlier if some were still using WWII kit. All of your info is invaluable…we have a phrase which I hope crosses the Pond…..this is "straight from the horse's mouth" My figures will actually end up in a plastic box in the attic. I keep a a few on display in the study. Catavar. You "made my day" by thinking that. It confirms the real value of B/W, greyscale, monochrome processing. Looks more realistic. There is a lot of useful data beginning to appear here. Others may know all this. I know a Chasseur a Pied from a Grenadier of the Old Guard, but this is all totally new to me. In 68-70 I must have been the only very long haired UK Grateful Dead fan who actually was grateful to the US troops who fought that war. I still am, but am glad to have been spared it by an accident of geography. I'll be honest. I personally could not game it, like Iraq or Afghanistan ….too soon. |
Legion 4 | 04 Oct 2019 1:27 p.m. PST |
Great modeling and pics !
OG107s Probably the worse field uniform I worn in the Army '79-'90, + 4 years before that as an ROTC Cadet, '75-'79! Jungle Fatigues and BDUs were far better uniforms overall. Especially in the field. Glad we got rid of the OG107s in '83 ! |
15mm and 28mm Fanatik | 04 Oct 2019 4:28 p.m. PST |
OG107's.Probably the worse field uniform I worn Why? It looks similar to the uni-color uniform the Israelis have been wearing for about 50 years.
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Legion 4 | 05 Oct 2019 8:38 a.m. PST |
IMO the OG107s were not as "functional" in field ops as the Jungles or BDUs. The jacket had pouch pockets as well as the trousers. It was based on the WWII Paratrooper uniform. It just worked better for many of us in the field. More places to carry things. And frankly the Jungles & BDUs looked more like a combat uniform. You looked more like a "modern" combat soldier. Not a bus driver … Not taking anything away from the IDF. But I know the Jungles and BDUs were more popular and functional with the troops. I've worn all there types of uniforms. The OG107s were again the worse uniform the US ARMY had for the reasons I mentioned and probably more. The original OGs, many starched them when not in the field. Then we were issued the permanent press version which was not much better. And they smelled from the chemicals for the permanent press ! |
deadhead | 06 Oct 2019 2:56 a.m. PST |
Cc Mattey asked about my colour palette. Not sure I could call it anything that sophisticated and the guide above I might well try out in future. For my figures I really must acknowledge Pete W 20th Sept; TMP link and Lost Pic 20th Oct; TMP link If you do Google "Vietnam Marine uniform painting TMP" you will come up with so much advice for most paint ranges. I would never have thought of German Uniform Green as a starter, however faded. (My highlights used a limited dark earth rather than an off white or grey mixture with it). It immediately looked like the photos of the time, but it has been pointed out that the bluish tinge may reflect the quality of colour film then, more than the colour at issue. Everyone stresses that no two outfits were the same after UV exposure, dust and wear and tear. The helmet covers (I now know a Mitchell cover) varied not just with either WWII and later issue but also from a brighter green effect to light sand, devoid of cammo. Get the boots right and then ruin them with drybrushed red sand/mud; make the helmets and flak jackets anything lighter than the uniform. Remember copper coloured tips for the brass ammo on the belts…..pointing outward! If I had any personal recommendation it is use of washes. My last 2mls of Ogryn Flesh (Citadel and totally irreplaceable applied over Tallarn Flesh). Russian Uniform Green and German Uniform Green from Vallejo, transformed with Citadel Athonian Camoshade wash. Hardly needed highlighting…falk jackets in three different colours but ALMOST identical after washes with CAC as above and with Agrax Earthshade. (Remember I am totally out of my depth here. With the one exception of Quantrill's Raiders, this is my first effort outside Napoleonic.) |