"British Motor Battalion 1941-1942" Topic

Hi all, I am looking for a breakdown of the organization of the British Motor Battalion in the Middle East/North Africa theater (both the 1941 and 1942 versions, if possible). In addition to the general structure and equipment of the battalion elements, I am particularly interested in the transport situation… how many transports were used in the platoon, for example, and were the MMG's transported by lorries or carriers? Thanks!

Have you already looked at?: link

See also post #14: link

Finally: link

Thanks Jeff, I scanned the first two and didn't see a very clear breakdown of the infantry nor of the transport situation. The third link is indeed much clearer in terms of transport, but doesn't seem to have information for the earlier 1941 organization. Even then, the 1942 information in the third link contradicts another source I am using… the Osprey book on the 8th Army, which suggests that every rifle squad had their own 3-ton lorry. The third link suggests that a Motor Platoon in August 1942 only had two lorries, which would imply that there are only two squads in the platoon (which would be fairly large squads, given the 24 men in the platoon). The third link is also unclear how weapons were distributed!

You can get 30 blokes into a single 3 tonner. My motor rifle chaps ride around in 15 cwt trucks, one per section.

A brief google turned up this:

PDF link

I was under the impression that the usual transport in motor battalions was a 15 cwt truck per section, surprised to see them being assigned a 3 ton lorry in that TOE.

However, the lorried infantry battalions usually had 3 ton lorries for transport.

PS: Notice that British infantry was not organised into squads, and lorry is not the same thing as a truck (though a halftrack is considered a truck).

Griefbringer, interesting, could you please elaborate? If the 24 men of all ranks in the motor platoon didn't organize themselves into sections, did they just maneuver and fight as an undivided platoon? Otherwise, the platoon would have to have three sections of fewer than 8-men, or have two sections of 8 or 10 men, given how few men were in the motor platoon (neither of which seems very likely, in my mind).

All Griefbringer meant was that the British used sections, not squads. The platoons had an HQ and three (small) sections. With the addition of the carrier platoon, motor companies had a similar head count to a normal rifle company but far more weapons.

All the TOEs I've seen had 15cwt trucks for motor companies. 3 tonners were for lorried infantry, not the same thing at all.

Thanks for that clarification, Martin. I've managed to find a few more resources related to the ones provided by Jeff above:

link

and

PDF link

From the last one in particular, it seems the final organizational scheme for Motor Companies in North Africa (from late 1942 to early 1943) looked something like this:

Company HQ with two 2-inch mortars, one 3-inch mortar and one Boys ATR. The combat elements of the company HQ were mounted in a jeep, three 15-cwt trucks with wireless telegraphy, four general service 15-cwt trucks and a 3-ton lorry. Note that the last link doesn't include the 2-inch mortar, but other sources suggest they were held at the company level for use as needed. I would think they might be issued one-each to the two motor platoons, which matched the earlier 1941 practice).

Scout platoon with HQ section of two carriers and three scout sections of three carriers each (all carriers are equipped with one Bren LMG and one Boys ATR each). There were also a couple of jeeps, but it is unclear if these were used in combat situations since the main elements of the scout platoon could easily be transported by the carriers.

MG platoon with a total of four Vickers MMGs mounted in two 3-ton lorries. A jeep carried the platoon leader.

Two motor platoons, each of two 10-man rifle sections (the first had a Boys ATR and a Bren LMG and the second had two Bren LMGs). The platoon leader was transported in a jeep and each rifle section was transported in either a 3-ton lorry or two 15-cwt trucks (making for between 3 and 5 vehicles per motor platoon). The motor platoons were possibly issued one 2-inch mortar each in certain circumstances (as described above), although this is speculation on my part. If this happened, the rifle sections would probably effectively drop down to 8-men each, with two men on an ATR and two men on a light mortar.

These numbers do not include non-combat elements, such as administration and supply (which account for, among other things, two Boys ATR, lots of vehicles, plenty of men and other things besides). You can find those units in the last link if you have an interest in that. The combat elements of the company were transported by four jeeps, seven 15-cwt trucks of various configurations, eleven carriers, two 3-ton trucks and either four more 3-ton lorries or eight more 15-cwt trucks (or perhaps some combination thereof). This organization is, of course, just on paper and the real-world fighting units were probably much more motley and heterogeneous!

Still looking for more information about the 1941 Motor Company organization!

It does depend on which Motor Bn organisation you're looking at and when, and also which WE it was organised under.

The WE issued in July 1938 was superseded in February 1940 by a slightly revised model. Under both the Motor Pl was very much like the normal Rifle Pl, with a few twists;

Pl HQ;
Subaltern (or WOIII)
Serjeant
Batman (absent for WOIII lead Pl)
Rifleman (two in WOIII lead Pl)
Driver IC (15-cwt truck)
Orderly (motorcycle)
also 2-inch mortar carried on truck

Three Motor Sections, each;
Corporal
6 Riflemen
1 light machine gun
Driver IC (15-cwt truck)
also Boys atk rifle carried on truck

Officer/WOIII and m/c orderly have pistols, all others rifles.

Three Motor Pls in the Company, plus one Scout Pl;

Pl HQ;
2 scout carriers, each 1 LMG and 1 Boys atk rifles
2 scout cars, each 1 LMG
2 motorcycles

Three Sections, each;
3 scout carriers, each 1 LMG and 1 Boys atk rifles
1 motorcycle

Three men in each carrier, two in each scout car, remainder on motorcycles (total 1 officer, 41 men).

Two theatre specific WEs were issued in North Africa. Neither goes into great detail on the organisation of any of the Platoons of the Motor Coy, including the Motor Pl. The latter WE noted that a Motor Pl could be transported by either four trucks or two lorries.

The PDF from Tony Chadwick's warestablishments.net is the 2NZEF version of the Bn, which should provide the organisation detail lacking in the British WEs.

Gary

Coy HQ was divided into fighting and admin, but no fire support. This was changed in late 1941 when a 3-in mortar was added to each Coy via amendment.

The February 1940 WE was not superseded in Home Forces until June 1943.

That's brilliant, thanks Gary!