"An American Indians Wars thread? Interest?" Topic

Anyone else thinking that perhaps Mr. TMP should consider an American Indian Wars thread? He could easily employ the sub threads Early Contact, 18th Century, and 19th Century.

Pre and Early Contact, FIW, AWI and Cherokee War… 1st/ 2nd/ 3rd Seminole Wars.. well all the Southeast 5 Nations conflicts, Plains Indian Wars, Southwest Apache-Comanche-etc… Wars, plus all the inter-tribal warfare possibilities… and there's plenty of room for some pulpy stuff based on marginal events like Lewis & Clark.

Two cents worth.

Do you mean an Indian Wars board?

Probably not with that title, Bill. Some maythink that posts regarding the Sepoy revolt, Clive in India, etc. could be included when the original poster's suggestion of American Indians Wars seemed to nail it. IMHO.

They're Native Americans, not Indians.

Mr. Editor thanks for the headline edit to clean up my fat fingers.

American Indian Wars is an accurate reference. Beyond that, whether folks choose to refer to the persons as American Indians or Native Americans is up to them.

Bottom line, is there enough interest in a separate parent thread?!

I would find it worthwhile.

Native Americans are commonly referred to as "Indians".

I can see why Tango posted it like that, in order to differentiate them from the other "Indians" living on the other side of the world.

I'd be interested in that board, both for tribe vs. tribe battles, as well as those vs. the US Army and American settlers.

I'd definitely be interested in such a board.

They're Native Americans, not Indians.

Odd, I know quite a few of them and they all call themselves Indians.

American Indians are not "native" to the Americas. They migrated into the Americas from Asia, primarily across the Siberia-Alaska land bridge.

If we a re to have a board for the American Indian conflicts, then it should be called the American Indian Wars board.

Jim

My ancestors were German/Irish. My Grandparents, mother and father and brothers, as well as myself were all born here in America -- what does that make us? Are we natives of no where?

Human appeared in Africa. Are we all Africans?)))

I've crossposted this to TMP Poll Suggestions, so we can have a vote on it in due time.

Probably not with that title, Bill.

My point was to clarify that he wanted a new board. (He said 'thread' so I wanted to make sure.)

Would it cover North and South America? Or does 'American' in this case mean the USA? USA and Canada?

Simply I vote yes

"American West" covers it IMO

This argument over syntax is exactly why we should not have this thread.

My experience living among Indians in Montana, South Dakota, and Arizona is that they are universally insulted at being referred to as a "Native American." Their tribal names are preferred first, then "Indian," and lagging far in last place is "Native American."

Holey Moley! Yes!

Yup, why the Hell not.

Glad others find this a worthwhile topic for discussion and possibly a new board. Mr. Editor, thanks for crossposting to "Poll Suggestions." Obviously my vote is "yes."

@Eagle76, the reason I suggested "American Indian Wars" was to include all that happened in the northeast and southeast up thru the 19th century. I think "American West" is too narrow for an overarching board.

Mr. Editor, interesting your thought about farther south, perhaps the sub-boards/ threads could include South American Indian Wars to differentiate from the pre-17th, 18th, and 19th century warfare in North America. Probably not enough content per catagory to differentiate much beyond that… otherwise the risk is "too niche."

So maybe the sub-boards on an "American Indian Wars" board should read "Pre-Early Contact North America," 18th Century North America," "19th Century North America," and "South American Indian Wars"; that seems to group similar content so it has more utility for TMPers.

I'm agnostic on the board because I don't game this period. However I'm probably unusual in that I don't mind new boards on specific topics, so I'd vote yes.

It is my understanding that many of the people in question prefer the term American Indian over Native American. Though the preferred term changes from time to time.
link

Don't game it either but if I did it would make sense to locate them all together instead having to search though so many other boards to find comparable threads

Is this not covered in The Old West board??

Seems to be more than just the Wild West or Old West. I think getting all this in one place rather than having to go to the different 'century' boards makes sense.

American Indian Wars can include South American subjects whereas America's Indian Wars would confine it to the United States and even leave out Canada. So yes if its American Indian Wars.

Isn't it already covered by the Victorian Colonial board which lists the USA in its preamble?

DBDD

Lots of good discussion here.

@DBDD, the Victorian board is, while stated to be all 19th c Imperial Powers, very heavily British in nature. Additionally, it doesn't include pre-19th century… so pre-contact warfare up to 1799 would be left out and that covers a lot of warfare involving American Indians such as; late 18th c Cherokee Wars, AWI era frontier skirmishes, Beaver Wars, FIW (which would necessarily see some overlap with the existing FIW board), American Indians vs Vikings, 17th and 18th c Spanish vs Indians in what is now Florida and the southwestern United States, tribe vs tribe, and so on.

I like to think my grasp of military history is pretty good and I am historically aware… that said, the description or connotation "Victorian" doesn't ring American Indian Wars bells writ large in my gray matter and I likely wouldn't look there for American Indian related info. This perception, or lack of ready recognition, associated with the term "Victorian" probably explains why we have a separate SpanAm War board; among others.

Similarly, as much as I like TSATF for gaming, I wouldn't think to look there for content related to American Indian Wars even though I know many use a rules adaptation to game those types of engagements.

Two more cents worth.

My buddy used to work in DC in a building where the Bureau of Indian Affairs located. They, many of them American Indians, would freely wear Wash. Redskin t-shirts, hang posters, etc.

Until their "Boss" would come for a visit and it would all disappear until the next day when the "Boss" whom they would light heartedly refer to as "the Chief" or "Big Chief", was gone … Then the Wash Redskins stuff would go up again …

While not 100% inclusive, this Wikipedia note may help convey the "scope" of American Indian Wars.. at least in North America. (No Incas, Aztecs or Mayans that would fall into South American Indian Wars included here.)

link

I'd love to see this board.

Rick

Yes. I don't game this period but I do make Indian Wars dioramas of it.

I would support this board

As OldJarHead asked, isn't this already adequately covered by the Old West board?

@OldJarHead and @BashaFelika posed the question "doesn't the Old West board cover it?" I ask "ummm, how could it?" Lots of good gaming to be found outside the "Old West".

Old West would not include all of the northeast and southeast tribes from the 1600s to about 1900. Also doesn't include much of the Ohio Valley, Great Lakes, or tribes in the far northwest like the Mandan. What about plains or southwest Indians battling each other before settlers arrived? What about Spanish against Navajo before the colonists moved "west"? Certainly the tribes rooted in Canada and South America wouldn't fall under "Old West".

If you look at the Old West board you see postings about Plains Indians and southwestern tribes like the Apache but nothing about Huron, Iroquois, Mohican, Abenaki, Delaware, Wyandot, Cherokee, Seminole, Creek, Fox, etc… Various Indian warfare topics are spread around piecemeal in FIW, American Revolution, War of 1812, Old West, or wherever the poster thinks the item might logically fit in.

It seems to me American Indian Wars does the best job of covering the whole topic. So my vote is yes to that.

@Minbiz, I had not considered the other ares you mentioned,
perhaps should have thought more typed later.

A good idea Bill.
Suggest it be limited to what we now call the USA and Canada east of the Missisippi River to and including Nova Scotia.
Respectfully,
Bill P.
Chronicler for the Adventures of General Pettygree
and as a disclaimer….
I had something to do with Drums of War Along The Mohawk published in 1986. See oldregimerules.com

When I was researching these groups two decades ago for my Under One Sun series of military history articles and later Fields of Glory projects, I saw Native Americans in many sources but they also used the term First Nations. The People was sometimes used by groups talking about their specific nation. American Indians seemed to be used by the ‘salt water people, lol. Use what you want since it is your site.

As pointed out by @RudyNelson, The People and First Nations are also names used to correctly reference the American Indian. Thanks @RudyNelson.

Typically, "The People" is used by Indians themselves, or academics-authors, and doesn't have much currency with the general public.

"First Nations is more commonly known but not as readily recognized as the term American Indian. Additionally, the descriptor of "First Nations" is generally identified with tribes in Canada and the upper U.S.. There is also the similar "Five Civilized Nations" descriptor used by tribes in the SE U.S.(Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, Creek and Seminole).

These facts are part of the reason I suggested "American Indian Wars;" it just seemed to me to be the most acceptable, identifiable and inclusive.

@ge2002Bill, thanks for weighing-in. Perhaps confining the board to the U.S. and Canada is a worthy consideration. Keeping its content to east of the Mississippi would, to my mind, leave out too much of what is accurately thought of as part of the American Indian Wars. Particularly, I think of the warfare in the American Southwest and tribal conflicts on the northern plains.

I've contributed all I can in support of my original thought so this is the last "two cents worth."

@ge2002Bill,@wargamingusa… Confining the board to the USA and Canada ignores the Apache wars in Mexico (and any other tribes that ignored the artificial border)

@gisbygeo… great point.

Any additional thoughts-input from the TMP crowd?

I thought there would be a poll to get the general consensus. I would vote yes.

North American Indian Wars, maybe?

@scouts19508a… Hopefully all the dialog here has convinced Mr. Editor the topic is deserving of a poll.

Hey Mr. Editor, is there an outcome here… like a new board?

@Tango01 just posted something about the Kickapoo Indians to the Old West board that is interesting and goes well beyond the Old West… and is a good illustration of why there would be value in an American Indian Wars board.

I guess I would prefer it to cover the tribes of North, Central, and South America. I suspect it would draw gamers to all of the tribes of peoples, throughout history. Limiting it to just North America (Canada and the USA) seems to be ripe for spawning another Board, or two, in the future.

I would suggest a board for all of the tribes, North to South. It would be broad enough, that most TMP'ers could easily figure out what to post within it. It could cover the battles between the Vikings and the natives, in Nova Scotia, as well as the Inca, the Maya, the Aztecs, and the Spanish. This would offer greater cross-pollinization of games and gamers, paying no heed to time periods, hosting discussions ranging from ancient times, to the 19th century. It could even host discussions on aliens from another planet, interacting with the civilizations which drew the Nazca lines -- at least, in theory. ;-) Cheers!

I've already gone on record here, limit this one to North American Indian Wars. If there are enough that want to fight Mayan vs Incan or whatever, they can start a South American Indian Wars board.

I think this is a good idea, but I would not like to lose the FIW board, which I think gets regular attention and has a decent following.