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"Proposed 'Negativity Ban' for Hobby News" Topic


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999 hits since 14 Aug 2019
©1994-2019 Bill Armintrout
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Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian14 Aug 2019 12:00 p.m. PST

There have been some interesting discussions here lately, regarding what level of negativity should be allowed in our forums and polls.

I am suggesting, for your feedback, a ban on negative and critical posts in the Hobby News forum. (This is the forum where you make comments on Hobby News stories.)

It seems to me that when a company announces a new product, they should have a 'safe space' free from people telling them their product sucks.

Of course, critical comments could still be made on the main forum.

Your thoughts?

William Warner14 Aug 2019 12:17 p.m. PST

Sounds reasonable to me.

MajorB14 Aug 2019 12:33 p.m. PST

It seems to me that when a company announces a new product, they should have a 'safe space' free from people telling them their product sucks.

Why?

Personal logo Barakvarr Supporting Member of TMP14 Aug 2019 12:38 p.m. PST

I think that's going to be a tricky one for you Bill. I'd certainly like to see less negativity but whether you can make it stick without at the same time creating a real rod for your back is doubtful.

As with everything it's a matter of degree, how low do you set the bar for negativity? ie "It sucks" is a bit different from "not my cup of tea".

Now if I was a manufacturer or designer I'd really not be happy with people criticizing my hard work in the news section, however you might found out it would be simpler just to close comments for the news and move all the comments to the forum. Not saying it's something you should do, mind you. it just might be the easiest for you.

Personal logo TheWhiteDog Supporting Member of TMP14 Aug 2019 12:47 p.m. PST

This is a joke, right?

Personal logo PzGeneral Supporting Member of TMP14 Aug 2019 12:53 p.m. PST

I've always thought it was strange that we could directly comment on Product announcements. My suggestion is to remove that function altogether. No comments of any kind, unless they are in the main forum…

There is a Consumer Affairs board, perfect place for these comments.

Personal logo Private Matter Supporting Member of TMP14 Aug 2019 12:57 p.m. PST

+1 PzGeneral

deephorse14 Aug 2019 12:58 p.m. PST

Just post the news without any facility for comment. Otherwise, if someone releases, for example, a 3D printed product that is clearly (from the photos they have provided) beyond awful, why shouldn't we be able to say so? They deserve to know, and only allowing positive (as if there would be any) or neutral comments will not fool anyone.

Tony S14 Aug 2019 1:05 p.m. PST

You're thinking of it? I thought it was already a rule? I got banned from TMP awhile ago for suggesting that a Pen&Sword book (a company I respect and have bought a LOT of books from) of a biography of the mother of Jane Austen might not be pertinent news to a wargaming website.

I wasn't rude or ignorant about it either. As I said, I like Pen & Sword. Didn't say the book was poor, nor did I say it "sucked". Just pointed out that, in my opinion, few wargamers are really that interested in the mother of Jane Austen.

But I was banned for being "critical" of an advertiser.

OldGrenadier at work14 Aug 2019 1:25 p.m. PST

PzGeneral may have the best idea.

Dn Jackson14 Aug 2019 1:27 p.m. PST

Probably too subjective to be enforceable in a fair way.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP14 Aug 2019 1:32 p.m. PST

I'm with PzGeneral on this.

But on the general issue of "negativity" remember that once it becomes known that unfavorable views of something can't be posted, favorable views also lose value. If Amazon only permitted five star reviews, what value would a five star review have?

bjporter14 Aug 2019 2:16 p.m. PST

I agree with PzGeneral. That suggestion makes the most sense.

Personal logo Flashman14 Supporting Member of TMP14 Aug 2019 2:47 p.m. PST

I've praised new items as well as constructively criticized products in the News section before. Perfectly appropriate there I think. Also, it's more organic to discuss a topic where it resides rather than having to create a new one from scratch then link/refer back to the News section, which only a few people will do.

Yes, you will get rid of critical comments, but also the good ones too. I say leave it. It's be worse for the vendor to go in with blinders on and to not know why their stuff isn't selling.

This site already seems to have diminishing participation levels and strangling opportunities for dialogue would only exacerbate that.

Fingerspitzengefuhl14 Aug 2019 3:00 p.m. PST

Bill

If something is blatantly rubbish you do a disservice to the company by not pointing it out!

Its easy to blow smoke…. far harder to speak truth.

Warlords first plastic Parisians had hand like bananas, they were give feedback, the new plastic Prussians are fantastic!!

I'm so glad people gave an honest, thoughtful opinion.

We all need to hear the truth to improve…..

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP14 Aug 2019 3:13 p.m. PST

I'm with PzGeneral.

Beyond it being odd, if it is a NEW product, upon what empirical/rational basis are we praising or criticizing it?

Maybe if you happened to be a playtester, but even that info might be best reserved for another forum. Other than that … reputation? halo/horns by association? I ate at that restaurant once and didn't like the dessert? three seconds of exposure to a .JPEG?

Teppsta14 Aug 2019 3:33 p.m. PST

+1 PzGeneral

Mr Elmo14 Aug 2019 3:34 p.m. PST

Bill could use this as a great way to make more money like Yelp

presenting more negative review information for companies that do not purchase its advertising services or by prominently featuring advertisements of the competitors of such non-paying companies.

We have libel laws to cover outright falsehoods.

TGerritsen14 Aug 2019 4:22 p.m. PST

Agree with PzGeneral- just turn off comments for news announcements.

That doesn't stop someone from making a separate thread about 'That thing in the news sucks!'

Personal logo Pictors Studio Sponsoring Member of TMP14 Aug 2019 4:23 p.m. PST

I think PzGeneral is right on the money.

khanscom14 Aug 2019 4:26 p.m. PST

Ditto PzGeneral-- let the advertisers'/ manufacturers' press releases be announced without comment.

Let any praise or criticism appear in the other boards. Commercial establishments shouldn't be afraid of that-- I suspect that most of us can recognize complete BS when it's posted by members.

JimSelzer Supporting Member of TMP14 Aug 2019 5:20 p.m. PST

so we need to roll on our back and do a puppy tail wag on sponsors when they produce junk?

Dadster Supporting Member of TMP14 Aug 2019 6:03 p.m. PST

One man's junk is another man's treasure.

Dadster Supporting Member of TMP14 Aug 2019 6:04 p.m. PST

I agree with PZ General as well.

corona66 Supporting Member of TMP14 Aug 2019 6:11 p.m. PST

Another vote for Pzgeneral.

Personal logo Old Contemptible Supporting Member of TMP14 Aug 2019 6:32 p.m. PST

If you don't want comments then don't ask for them. Don't ask for comments then get mad when you don't get the comments you want.

If it deserves a good comment I give it. I don't usually say anything unless it is obviously bad. Then I slam it.

Another vote for PzGeneral.

Thresher01 Supporting Member of TMP14 Aug 2019 6:33 p.m. PST

Apparently so, Jim.

Personal logo Old Contemptible Supporting Member of TMP14 Aug 2019 6:40 p.m. PST

There have been some interesting discussions here lately, regarding what level of negativity should be allowed in our forums and polls.

Really? Where and by whom are these interesting discussions?

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian14 Aug 2019 7:13 p.m. PST

We could also give advertisers the option of whether, for their Hobby News story, comments are allowed or not.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian14 Aug 2019 7:17 p.m. PST

But I was banned for being "critical" of an advertiser.

No, your account was locked for rudely posting in public, telling TMP what we could run as Hobby News. Your comment had nothing to do with the quality of the product, but you were objecting to our decision to run such a Hobby News story.

TMP is, after all, a business, and it's our decision which advertisers to accept and which Hobby News stories to run.

WarWizard14 Aug 2019 7:36 p.m. PST

I sometimes make comment with a question on details that are not included in the news release.
Like what is the scale?
Are there any photos?
etc…..
But if comments weren't allowed, wouldn't bother me.

Northern Monkey14 Aug 2019 9:27 p.m. PST

+1 for pzgeneral

If something is blatantly rubbish then there's no need to comment. it's blatantly obvious.

A Lot of Gaul15 Aug 2019 4:49 a.m. PST

Add my +1 for PzGeneral's suggestion.

BigE4NFL15 Aug 2019 5:42 a.m. PST

Another +1 for PzGeneral recommendation

Joes Shop Supporting Member of TMP15 Aug 2019 5:59 a.m. PST

+1 PzGeneral

Personal logo Andrew Walters Supporting Member of TMP15 Aug 2019 8:26 a.m. PST

I disagree with what appears to be the consensus, I think it's very important to be able to comment on new releases. If we have to go searching for a separate discussion thread most people won't bother.

Reading other people's ideas and enthusiasm for a new product is not only interesting, it's definitely moved me from interested to purchasing a few times. It also helps if we want to share other information about the product, find related products, etc.

Immediate negative comments on a release announcement are bad. They dampen others' excitement and enjoyment, and certainly don't do the relevant manufacturer any good. You could limit those, but people are going to skirt the line. But you shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water.

But shutting people down on a forum is the exact opposite of the right answer.

victor0leto15 Aug 2019 9:39 a.m. PST

I don't post to the forums often. My interests are fantasy miniatures/fantasy miniature games/sci-fi games/toy gaming and general hobby news (but I am always willing to jump into a conversation about Scales and Measurements for some reason).

I hope what I am about to say isn't worded so poorly that it is misunderstood (something that I struggle with)

I don't read comments unless I am interested in what the comments for a product might be (usually I am not interested in the comments).

I read a lot of forums here and maybe it's just me, but nothing here has ever made me upset enough that I felt a need to lash out at a perfect stranger for saying something I might disagree with.

When I tell my wife how excited I am to see a new release mentioned on "The Miniatures Page" she says,

"What?"

Deucey15 Aug 2019 10:27 a.m. PST

I agree wi pzGeneral and Barakvar.

Personal logo Flashman14 Supporting Member of TMP15 Aug 2019 11:08 a.m. PST

I'd like a record of the yays and nays. Make it a poll.

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP15 Aug 2019 12:10 p.m. PST

The ayes are above the noes.

If we have to go searching for a separate discussion thread most people won't bother.

Horses for courses, but I am much less likely to see a news announcement on the front page. If it isn't the last one (with the big picture) or second to last one posted, the news article link is sandwiched between two others that I am not interested in.

But if it is on a forum I read because I am interested in that genre, I will see it.

Tony S15 Aug 2019 1:49 p.m. PST

No, your account was locked for rudely posting in public, telling TMP what we could run as Hobby News. Your comment had nothing to do with the quality of the product, but you were objecting to our decision to run such a Hobby News story.

Ah. I see. While I do not have a copy of my post, I will categorically state that it absolutely was not my intention to be rude. I wasn't angry in any way shape or form when I wrote. Matter of fact, I felt it was amusing to see, and made what I thought was a light hearted comment about running it.

I really don't think I told you that you could not run it, nor did I even strongly object. (Although, if you inadvertently perceived it as "rude", I can understand your belief that I was objecting strongly).

However, the question of rudeness aside, wouldn't it be pertinent to your business to get feedback from your readers as to what they see as useful or interesting? A comment is defined as "a verbal or written remark expressing an opinion or reaction." There was a comment box there, so I expressed my opinion or reaction. (With perhaps a poor joke, if someone thought it ignorant).

But this was in the email I received from TMP:

I understand you made a post critical of one of our advertisers' Hobby News story.

The way I read that sentence is that I made a post critical of the advertiser, not TMP's decisions.

Given the apparent ease in which comments and emails are misconstrued, perhaps PzGeneral is correct. Turn off feedback, or give the advertiser the option to opt out.

I'll pop you an email Bill, there was something else, but it's not pertinent to a discussion on News Feedback.

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