"Dick's" Topic

We have the first Amendment because of the 2nd Amendment. The Dragonnade above for the Catholics; and the Church of England being the government religion of Great Britain – thus driving the Pilgrims, first to Holland, then to New England. Their Protestant covenant is a very solid start to our Constitution.

Potential government tyranny in league with religious intolerance is certainly at the heart of the 2nd amendment.

The militia up to the Constitution was every man, boy and some women who could pick up, load, aim and fire a Pennsylvania rifle; a musket; a blunderbuss; a fowling piece, a pistol, and learn to defend their community.

Our military is sworn not to take up arms against our own citizens, and if that should change, many current and former veterans would oppose such a move, possibly shatter the morale of the armed forces. Those of us who prepare can operate as guerrillas, keeping stocks of food, water, and ammunition for our semi-automatic rifles ("assault rifles" be definition are fully-automatic – machine gun-like), bolt action hunting rifles, handguns) is areas within a short distance on foot in several directions. The M1 Garand with an ammo belt carried 88 rounds in 11 clips, and could be used effectively up to 500 yards against enemies in formation, with shorter range, fully-automatic weapons. Shoot from ambush, move. Move again, shoot from ambush. Guerillas do not need fully automatic weapons, or bump stocks, for they are a tragic waste of ammunition.

IED's are feasible with the elements in common supply. There is also the empty wine bottle with oil, gasoline. and a piece of rag.

GdeP

I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

"I find it rather perplexing how any forum with a focus on military (miniatures, gaming, etc) can even remotely draw those who are so contradictory."

I think its because we are all interested in the military(s), military history, wargaming, and, yes, guns/weapons.

This thread concerns a problem, and possible solutions, brought about by the easy availability of guns to civilians in this country.

As I've said, it's a shame such a thread exists on a wargaming site to harshly expose the contradictions among us.

I took and gave that oath many times …

I tried riding my Ruger to work yesterday, but my butt cheek depressed the clip release and I 9mm'd all over the highway.

I tried that once too, now I can't figure out what happened to my gun, never saw it again, but my ass is still sore, wonder why?

BTW saw some discussion re: statistics, how come we never get any stats about how many assaults, robberies, etc. are prevented each year by GOOD people with guns?

von Schwartz. That is a very good question.

I came to this country about 25 years ago. I was quite surprised at the passion from both sides and attempted to strip away the emotion and get down to the bare numbers.
Finding any reliable numbers was virtually impossible. Murders, accidents, suicides, preventions, etc. Distinct and separate from other factors/weapons. Finding bare, reliable facts was tough and made arriving at an emotionless conclusion difficult.

I'm sure the stats are easier to come by today (I haven't researched them), but one would imagine the number you seek would be widely publicized by pro-groups. This leads me to think it's not very large.

I hope this comment comes across as impartial, as it is intended.

It is threads like this that make me think being a GW fanboy focused on sci-fi and fantasy is not such a bad idea.

"I'm sure the stats are easier to come by today (I haven't researched them), but one would imagine the number you seek would be widely publicized by pro-groups".

Don't count on it. A lot of people with certain agendas want to keep that stuff hidden, and/or they can't be trusted to objectively categorize and document some/many/most stats.

"This leads me to think it's not very large".

Perhaps, though to be fair, about 60% – 65% or so of "gun killings" are suicides, so……..

Many of the others are gang member on gang member shootings.

After that, I suspect, are bad guys shot by the cops for failure to comply with dropping their weapons when ordered to do so, or during active shooting situations.

After eliminating those three categories from the total deaths to shooting, I suspect the number of incidents left where a "good guy", who is not a cop, could intervene are rather small.

That will be made much, much smaller, since so few civilians are actually permitted to legally carry a concealed weapon, due to overly burdensome, unconstitutional regulations, and the high cost to get a license and to keep it.

If more people were able to carry, I suspect a lot more attacks could be stopped, and/or deterred in many cases. Distracting the bad guy with a gun by firing back at him will help protect a lot of people, even if the good guy doesn't take him down with their own weapon.

#von Schwartz

I would recommend copious consumption of Taco Bell. That might be able to rectum'fy the situation, God willing and your safety was on…

And this too, shall pass.

May the Schwartz be wich'ya

My post on this thread seems to have disappeared (not marked as deleted). I am not sure why.

Bill – might it be possible to let people know how they have broken the rules when you delete their posts?

Thanks

Here is an interesting article posted this week on the internet, noting how many other nations had killings with guns. Switzerland surprised me, but I once read that their nation is so secure, that many committed suicide from sheer boredom!

link

GdeP

Real.numbers are hard to get because the NRA pushed through a law preventing any real research of those numbers if gun restrictions might come of it.

Our practice here in the USA is that one is considered innocent until PROVEN guilty. I therefore ask Aethel… for evidence of the accusation that the NRA (5 million or so US citizens who teach gun safety and marksmanship, and protect the 2nd Amendment) "pushed through a law preventing any real reasearch of those number if gun restrictions come of it."

We have the Freedom of Information act that allows such research to continue. Socialists do not want this information known, for it would show why gun crimes have been dropping in the US for years – a good guy with a gun stops a bad guy "in the act" without firing a shot.

Summary: Where is your proof, your evidence?

GdeP

link

1996 Dickey Amendment
link

2003 Tiahrt Amendment
link

Center Left – NPR
link

Center Right – Christian Science Monitor
link

Bias Graphic

I just Google searched the question. All our lives might be a bit less overheated if we tried to focus on the sources in the green and yellow boxes. Just a thought. And as a good card carrying moderate, I think CNNs straddling the line puts them outside the Pale.

Speaking of sources,where can I find a link to that FBI source regarding blunt weapon use?

link

I could find 2017 stats, but, oddly enough, nothing for 2018.

If you include "other" and "not identified", seems to me that the possibility that assault style weapons might eclipse blunt weapons. Still there is no way that blunt weapons could be efficient killing weapon of choice of the mass murdering terrorist.

I remain correct in my criticism of the false statement: "more murders are done by blunt objects than from guns." Clearly the stat indicates bullies cause more murders than blunt objects.

#Aethel

I think your autocorrect done bit you.

"qaStaHvIS wa' ram loSSaD Hugh SIjlaH qetbogh loD"

From the Klingon,

"Four thousand throats may be cut in one night by a running man."

I wonder how many noggins a Klingon could get with a baseball bat in one night?

Bullets…

As for the idea that gun armed defensive power dissuades crime and that this is responsible for the reduction of crime over the years, it certainly begs the question as to why the same downward trend of overall crime rates exists in the unarmed U.K.?

As for the supposition that the second amendment was to make the newly created USA safe from external oppression and internal tyranny there is the also the consideration that the 2nd amendment was added to get southern states fearful of slave revolts on board. They wanted a guarantee that slave owners could keep the means necessary to keep those revolts at bay. Nothing said "master" better than a loaded pistol at the belt.

In any case the power of modern small arms exceeds the imagination of the founders. In the same fashion that we do not allow the unrestricted ownership of grenades andexplosives, automatic weapons and SAMs because of the amplified power of the weapon for mayhem in the hands of a miscreant we need to think about how even a modern handgun exceeds the power of a whole company of musket armed militiamen, much less the single miscreant of those times. Would the founders have exercised more restrictions? I think they would have.

Amendments can be changed (and certainly interpretations evolve). The founders recognized the possible need for this. Treating an original amendment as unassailable and permanent is to insult the spirit of the document.

KPinder … Qupla' !!!!!!!!!!

Just got back from work, and "Thank you" for showing the power of the 5 million members of the NRA! I must put them on a monthly donation!

They give great handgun training, and have since the ACW ended – note the Civilian Marksmanship program.

GdeP

I am sure laPierre could use a new source for his wardrobe financing as well his mansion as the bathroom with 2 couches as an audience space for the bather (1 of 9 in a 4 bedroom mansion, sure costs more than he can handle. You spend your money as you wish and perhaps I'll see you at the barricades one day.

#GdP

Let me get this right. On 8/16 you object to the assertion that the NRA has suppressed data collection on gun violence. On 8/17, having been presented with evidence of it, you now profess pride in it.

"No, my dog did not bite the mailman. No, wait. He did bite the mailman, and I'm glad he did."

Friend, you really need to start making your Kool-Aid at home.

#Aethel

The NRA is corrupt. Ok. With a nation full of Russian meddling, paedophile priests, gerrymandering, soft money, and crappy Star Wars movies, I have bigger issues. Next you'll be telling me pro wrestling is fake.

The main problem with the NRA is that they are a one note piano. They have just one issue. Without this issue, they're raison d'etre is gone. Consequently, they will advocate their issue as a matter of organizational life and death. IF they were to fearmonger, would that be at all surprising. God bless em.

As for me, I'm not manning any damned barricades. I hate camping and the WiFi stinks.

I'll restrict my vehemence to the voting booth where it belongs. Here in Maryland we are deeply Blue gerrymandered and damned proud of it. We have a Red governor who is as DAMNED FINE a human being as you'd ever wanna meet, who I would be duly proud to have date my sister.

I couldn't give one solid if Dicks wants to sell guns or not. Good for them either way.

It's still a free country.

Boy, I'm a wordy .

I did NOT know that the NRA had such "power." I have been a member since by 12 years in Texas. It their monthly magazine, they have several articles supported by police sites, of citizens protecting themselves, their homes and/or each other from assailants – armed or not. I also read "Bearing Arms" which also has – just about every day – another narrative of such an event. You'll hear none of this from the media.

The Second Amendment is more than a single issue. It protects the 1st Amendment, also under attack by leftists who want to censor or silence all conservative commentary. If our major cities were NOT , black citizens might have a chance to defend themselves against black gangs.

Baltimore, Maryland – if it were an independent country, would have the 5th highest murder rate in the world.

I am a 62,000,000 issue voter, plus Second and First amendment. We are in truly sad times.

All this adds up to

Just sayin'.

GdeP

All your credibility just went out the window, GdP.

Sigh.

Am I nuts, or did the fabric of time space just fart?

GdPs post is shorter and now has bleeps. It didn't have bleeps before, nor did it warrant any.

Is L-e-f-t-i-s-t now bleepable?

Let's try, leftist.

I'm commencin' ta get dizzy.

#GdP

Did you retool your last post? I can't say we're on the same page, or even in the same book, but it's hard to know what's shaking when the past starts to warp.

I expect he just got snipped by Bill for off the rails political/religious ranting. (But no DH).

Oh, so "snips" not "bleeps."

I am an atheist. I can only be an atheist in a Christian-based society.

And I did not "snip" or shorten my message. Maybe the "Gremlins" of WWII are alive and well in the miniatures page!

GdeP

I, for one think it's probably time to let this thread go sleepy time.

I expect he just got snipped by Bill for off the rails political/religious ranting. (But no DH).

I was in a hurry, on my way to a wedding reception.

GdPs post is shorter and now has bleeps. It didn't have bleeps before, nor did it warrant any.

Is L-e-f-t-i-s-t now bleepable?

No politics, remember?

I, for one think it's probably time to let this thread go sleepy time.

Yep I agree …