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636 hits since 11 Aug 2019
©1994-2019 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Natxoman11 Aug 2019 4:06 p.m. PST

.. cards for the Jagdpanzer Kanone for Team Yankee??

Just my cold war favourite AFV…

Thresher01 Supporting Member of TMP11 Aug 2019 5:23 p.m. PST

Mine too, and no, I have not.

Most likely will use different rules for it and other armor.

Natxoman11 Aug 2019 5:28 p.m. PST

I Will also use other rules (the Too Fat Lardies IABSM/IABNM) , but I will use the weapon and vehicle stats from Team Yankee… probably .

Natxoman11 Aug 2019 5:31 p.m. PST

And it would be nice to have also the card/stats for the M-48A2GA2…

Even those of the M-48A2C , since it seems that a few of those were still in the reserve brigades , even during the 80s!

28mm Fanatik11 Aug 2019 9:09 p.m. PST

With a little "card bashing" everything you need already exists on the three cards below.

The Jagdpanzer Kanone can be created by replacing the HOT missile of a Jaguar 1 (or the TOW on a Jaguar 2) with the M41 90mm gun of the M48 Patton. Likewise the M48A2GA2 can be created by replacing the 'Nam M48 Patton's 90mm gun with the Leopard 1's 105mm gun (note: the crew stats should be the Leopard 1's but the tank mobility/speed stats should be the M48's). The M48A2C is no different in game terms as the 'Nam M48 card in the middle except for the crew stats (again, use the Leo 1's).


Points cost and game balance will be up to you to decide. These cards will be obsolete by next year anyway when TY V2 comes out because the cards will be redesigned to look like FOW V4's.

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Natxoman12 Aug 2019 2:40 a.m. PST

The M-48A2GA2 (it would be nice if someone did a mini of this model…) is , as you say , easy to make , simply add the 105mm gun stats from the leo 1 to the M-48 stats fron fate of a nation and presto.

But the 90mm-gun armed M-48A2C (if there was any really extant by the 80s , something that I'm not really sure of) could be more tricky , since by the 80s there was 90mm sabot anmo avalible for the M-47 and M-48 90mm guns (al least , the israelis made it , and the spanish army certainly purchased a lot of these during the early 80s) , so IF there was any number of remaining 90mm gun-armed M-48s in Germany , it would't too far fetched to suppose that the germans would provide them with APFSDS ammo… which we do not know how better it was (if it was really any better) to the previous AT ammo for the M-48 , which I do suppose it was a HEAT round .


However , the Kanonen Jagdpanzer it is an even more complex affair , since the Jaguar , which in its earlier incarnation , as the Raketen Jagdpanzer (Jaguar 1) , or KanonenJagdpanzer (Jaguar 2) had been reinforced in the armour department… ad I have no idea what the original armour stats were in Tean Yankee terms .

The gun would be easier , since it was a shorter model tan that on the M-47/48 , and it was designed to use mainly HEAT roundes , so it should employ the stats for the Vietnam and FoA M-48 gun…

28mm Fanatik12 Aug 2019 8:13 a.m. PST

Adapting the Jaguar 1 for the Jagdpanzer Kanone is really not that complex and I wouldn't change a thing. The Jagdpanzer Kanone and Jaguars 1 and 2 are both listed as having 50mm armor. In TY the Jag 1 and 2 both have a front armor value of 9 and side armor of 4. Due to the Jag 2 being open-topped it actually has less armor on top than the Jag 1:

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The HOT-armed Jag 1's were converted from 316 old Raketenpanzer 2's between 1978 and 1982. The Rakentenpanzer 2's were armed with the French Nord Aviation S.11 wire-guided missiles and are not to be confused with the later TOW-armed Jag 2's, which were themselves converted from 162 Jagdpanzer Kanone tank destroyers between 1983 and 1985.

So by the mathematical "transitive property," the Jagdpanzer Kanone's armor should be the same as the Jag 1's because the Jag 2 (same armor as Jag 1 in TY except on top) was converted from it and it's not open-topped.

28mm Fanatik12 Aug 2019 9:42 a.m. PST

IF there was any number of remaining 90mm gun-armed M-48s in Germany , it would't too far fetched to suppose that the germans would provide them with APFSDS ammo… which we do not know how better it was (if it was really any better) to the previous AT ammo for the M-48 , which I do suppose it was a HEAT round.

Sounds reasonable. Increase the Anti-Tank rating of the 90mm gun from 16 to 17 then. The T-55AM2's 100mm gun's AT value was increased over the vanilla T-55's gun (same caliber) on the TY cards below so go for it.

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Natxoman12 Aug 2019 5:08 p.m. PST

So by the mathematical "transitive property," the Jagdpanzer Kanone's armor should be the same as the Jag 1's because the Jag 2 (same armor as Jag 1 in TY except on top) was converted from it and it's not open-topped.

The armour was reinforced (those bolted-on panels at front and the sides) , increasing it from the original 30mm to those 50mm , as part of the Jaguar 1/2 modernization package .

More info here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Wbc1fRRJlA

As for the 90mm sabot ammo for the M-48A2C , yout idea sounds right to me .


I suppose that the Kanonen jagdpanzers would continue to use their HEAT projectiles as main AT ammo , although perhaps they could also employ those 90mm sabots.. with a decrease in effectiveness , due to their shorter barrels when compared to those of the M-48s .

Perhaps 16 for both HEAT and APFSDS?

28mm Fanatik12 Aug 2019 9:36 p.m. PST

The armour was reinforced (those bolted-on panels at front and the sides) , increasing it from the original 30mm to those 50mm , as part of the Jaguar 1/2 modernization package.

That is already represented in the Armor 9 (Front) stat on the Jaguar 1 and 2 cards. The Leopard 1 (70mm armor at the thickest spot) MBT also has a frontal armor of 9 so it shouldn't be higher.

Perhaps 16 for both HEAT and APFSDS?

If your opponent doesn't mind you increasing the sabot's AT to 17 I'd say go for it. The '80's had a new generation of improved tank munitions compared to the 'Nam and Fate of a Nation era of the '60's and '70's.

Thresher01 Supporting Member of TMP13 Aug 2019 7:08 a.m. PST

IIRC, I think the frontal armor on the JgPz K is 50mm.

I tried doing a bit of research on this a while back. Never did come up with confirmation of the AP rounds for the gun, though it does seem logical, given other tanks sporting them. Supposedly though, the cannon has a lower velocity than the standard one, due to its shorter length, so you might consider that.

Seems as if HEAT was the primary round anticipated for use in this gun.

There was some conjecture of a HESH round too, IIRC, along with smoke/WP.

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