Chalfant | 26 Jul 2019 9:02 a.m. PST |
Howdie. I have some questions about something I only know a little about…. I am aware that many nations used 3 plane fighter formations initially, but gradually converted over to 4 plane formations during the war. If I am looking at 1940-early 1941…. Germans are probably in finger four? RAF are probably in Vic until 1941? Italians are…. guessing Vic, but don't know…? If it matters, looking at Mediterranean and North Africa. Any thoughts are appreciated, and not looking for specific dates, just a general sense :) Chalfant "Belly Payload" Conley |
Silurian | 26 Jul 2019 9:59 a.m. PST |
The Germans are certainly in finger four, which they called the 'schwarme'. They developed this from their experience in Spain. British-based RAF front line squadrons had largely abandoned the vic by the end of the Battle of Britain, but it wasn't universal and squadrons stationed abroad, such as N. Africa, were still using it through 1941. Don't know about the Italians, but I suspect, fighting alongside the Germans in the BoB, would have picked up the finger four. |
Chalfant | 26 Jul 2019 10:18 a.m. PST |
OK, so that sounds like what I am thinking for the Germans and RAF, EXCEPT your point about the Italians maybe learning from the Germans, interesting. Had not considered that, but it certainly sounds plausible. Chalfant |
Texas Jack | 26 Jul 2019 10:30 a.m. PST |
From what I recall Italy didnīt go to the finger four until early in 1941. Sorry, away from my sources so I canīt give you any details, just going by memory. Maybe someone can add to this, or detract from it for that matter. :) |
Chalfant | 26 Jul 2019 10:38 a.m. PST |
No problem, I will take your input :) Chalfant |
Herkybird | 26 Jul 2019 10:47 a.m. PST |
In the RAF, the 'Finger Four' formation was introduced in imitation of the Luftwaffe 'Schwarme' by Douglas Bader in the spring of 1941. During the Battle of Britain, a line astern/fighting in pairs formation was gradually introduced (J.E.Johnson: The story of Air Fighting). |
Timmo uk | 26 Jul 2019 10:53 a.m. PST |
Sailor Malan was leading 74 squadron using finger four during the BoB. Some other squadrons were also using it at the same time. Not sure what direct relevance this has to your theatre other than the RAF were using it in some squadrons so you don't have to stick to Vs. |
Chalfant | 26 Jul 2019 12:05 p.m. PST |
Thanks. All good info. Chalfant |
Thresher01 | 26 Jul 2019 4:09 p.m. PST |
Yea, I've read a few were experiment with, and/or mimicking German practice during the BoB, so perhaps from as early as Sept. 1940, but that would be relatively rare, and unofficially done, only. IIRC, the line-astern attacks were frequently used vs. the bomber formation, so they could be attacked in series by the RAF fighters. |
gamershs | 26 Jul 2019 8:26 p.m. PST |
The Japanese used a V of Vs for there fighter formations. Late in the war they went to Finger Four formation. I painted all of my Japanese fighters in groups of 4 :( of which I have 16 Zeros and 12 Claudes. |
Timmo uk | 27 Jul 2019 9:25 a.m. PST |
The other thing to consider is that during the BoB squadrons often scrambled with what they had available. When you see the breakdown of airframes scrambled for sorties it's very clear that they must have frequently used ad hoc formations. Again I'm not sure how this translates to your theatre but there is surely leeway for you to make your games more interesting than if you always have to have the RAF in Vs or line astern. |
Chalfant | 27 Jul 2019 10:53 a.m. PST |
Howdie. I guess I should have clarified, I was thinking more of how I was painting my miniatures… using some 1/600 for CY6! and was thinking if I had 6 109e's, I'd probably paint 4 of one scheme and 2 of another (which kind of goes with the finger four), but if I had 6 MC202, maybe I'd paint them 3 and 3, to match the Vic. Ultimately its not critical, I'd just like to add a little variety that would still look ok :) All of the input is helpful. Chalfant |
emckinney | 27 Jul 2019 3:31 p.m. PST |
Finger Four relied on radios because the section section's leader and even the wingmen were in poor position to keep track of the flight leader's exact position, especially while searching their assigned visual sectors. The Italians often didn't have radios, and the open-cockpit biplanes made them impractical (the Gloster Gladiator had an enclosed cockpit just for this reason--the RAF considered the weight penalty of radios essential as early as the 1920s in order to operate and integrated air defense for London). With poor reliability radios, and often operating with their cockpits open, the Zeroes couldn't use Finger Four effectively. If you read Lundstrom's The First Team, you'll find lots of examples of Wildcats in Finger Four losing contact with each other, often when part of the flight engaged the enemy. The Wildcats tended to operate in radio silence, using hand signals, to keep Japanese direction finding from giving away the position of a carrier group or strike mission. Lundstrom shows plenty of examples of that going awry. |