"HMGS inc. RESPONSE REGARDING A REPORTED INCIDENT" Topic

On Sunday morning at Historicon® there was an incident involving an exhibitor, Mr. George Nafziger, and convention volunteers and members of the HMGS Inc. Board of Directors. The Board and convention staff regret that this incident – in the heat of the moment – escalated to the degree it did.

Mr. Nafziger has sent a letter of complaint to the Board, which has been cross posted by others on numerous social media outlets. There are portions of his statement that are false – particularly his interaction with a Board member – while other portions are exaggerations of what happened. As such, we feel that Mr. Nafziger's comments need some expansion and clarification.

We wish to make it clear that as an organization, we DO NOT discriminate against anyone and that we try to apply our policies and the terms and conditions of our events in a fair and even-handed manner. Since we are an all-volunteer organization, sometimes those rules and regulations may be misinterpreted and/or misapplied by staff and attendees. However, we do not believe this happened in this case.

Mr. Nafziger, who was attending Historicon as an exhibitor, chose to start loading out his booth without prior permission around 11am (approximately 1 hour before the exhibit hall was due to close). This is a contravention of the Pack-out section of the Exhibitor Terms & Conditions that applies to all exhibitors. What Mr. Nafziger describes as an "unwritten rule" is included here for clarification:

"Pack-out
Exhibitor may not begin dismantling or packing any table or display before the official close of the Exhibit Hall at noon Sunday without prior HISTORICON® staff approval. Dismantling or packing prior to that time may result in forfeiture of any future priority and possible rejection of application to future HMGS® shows."

If Mr. Nafziger had asked for prior HISTORICON® staff approval under the Pack-out term – either when he reserved his exhibitor spot, or sometime between Thursday morning and Saturday afternoon – he would have been accommodated with a non-disruptive pack-out time, as were other exhibitors; especially if he'd apprised us of his health issues. He made no such request.

During the normal course of Sunday morning operations, the Exhibit Hall manager (James Curtis) was reminding all exhibitors that they would have to wait until noon to ‘pack-out'. When Mr. Nafziger pointed out that a number of other exhibitors had already left – some without Exhibit Hall staff permission – Mr. Curtis compromised by telling him he could break down his booth but could not use his cart until after 12pm. The application of this Exhibitor Term was neither "capricious" nor "discriminatory" as Mr. Nafziger contends.

Mr. Nafziger was clearly angered by this ruling, so Mr. Curtis (rightly) called the Convention Director, Joby Miller, to escalate the issue. Mr. Miller was attending the Board meeting when he found out about the issue. He immediately left the meeting, followed shortly thereafter by the President, John Spiess and Vice President, Dave Waxtel.

When Mr. Spiess and Mr. Waxtel arrived in the exhibitor hall, Mr. Miller had not yet spoken to Mr. Nafziger, who had his cart loaded and was leaving. It was obvious that Mr. Nafziger was extremely agitated. Only one Board member, Mr. Waxtel, had any interaction with Mr. Nafziger at this point, while Mr. Spiess looked on.

Mr. Waxtel tried to approach Mr. Nafziger, using humor to defuse the situation. Mr. Waxtel's interaction with Mr. Nafziger was in the middle of one of the largest aisles in the Exhibit Hall with multiple people around. At no time did Mr. Waxtel curse, insult or even argue with Mr. Nafziger about the convention rules.

What Mr. Nafziger stated in his letter about Mr. Waxtel's statement is completely false. It was Mr. Nafziger who continued to escalate the situation, becoming increasingly agitated, and who said he's not coming back and walked away. The final interaction was so fast that Mr. Spiess never even had a chance to say a word before Mr. Nafziger stated that he was leaving and never coming back. He resisted all attempts of our volunteers, convention staff, and Board members to resolve the matter. For the safety of those around, including Mr. Nafziger, it was agreed that Mr. Nafziger leaving at that point was the best solution.

Mr. Nafziger was not told, at any time, that he was banned from future HMGS Inc. events.

We apologize to any members, exhibitors and guests who were disturbed by this event at the conclusion of what was otherwise – based on feedback received – a great convention.

HMGS Inc. Board of Directors

I don't have a dog in this fight, but the ruling that he can break down his display booth, but not use his cart does seem rather arbitrary and capricious to me, especially when dealing with an older gentleman who has/had major health issues, and apparently a lot of material to haul away.

To get to the bottom of the "arbitrary and capricious" issue, were other vendors permitted to use dollies, carts, or other wheeled material handling equipment to remove their items prior to the close of the convention?

Inquiring minds want an answer to that.

Knowing others were permitted to leave early just adds to the salt in the wound.

Perhaps Mr. Nafziger didn't know he'd want to be leaving early due to slow sales, and/or wouldn't be feeling well, prior to the end of the convention, and/or that day, so didn't think to request "permission" (which itself is a ridiculous restriction as far as I'm concerned, for grown adults residing in a supposedly "free" country).

I'm fully willing to believe that Mr. N. grew agitated, and may even be responsible for 51%+ of the conflict escalation.

However, given the circumstances, I can see many others, including myself becoming agitated and indignant, if not down right irate over such nonsense, especially when one considers the argument is really over 60 minutes of time on a slow, Sunday, by all accounts.

I'm irritated just thinking about how this elderly gentleman was treated, and I don't know him, and have never done business with him.

From a previous post, it appears that he has been hospitalized due to health complications, after he left the convention, if that account is accurate (I have no way of confirming the validity of that claim).

I certainly hope he recovers fully, if that is indeed true.

CYA

I don't have a dog in this fight

Me too.
It sounds like others were not 'permitted' to leave early and use carts, etc; sounds like they just did.

I can see both sides of the "stay 'til noon" rule, as an attendee, I wouldn't want to want to make last minute purchases only to have half the vendor hall empty. As a vendor, I wouldn't want to stick around if it doesn't look like anyone is going to come in at the last minute.

I was going to respond, but then figured it wouldn't really matter anyway because of posts just like the one above. Suffice it to say, having known George for decades and looking at both his original letter and the official response, the latter seems more plausible. Obviously few will ever know for certain.

That said, associating humor with Dave Waxtel certainly is . . . unexpected.

Bill G

Hmmm.

Thresher01…

+1

I think you have it right SMM.

I've never meet Mr. Nafziger but from the start his letter looked like one that is usually written by a person who over reacted and exaggerates his story to gain sympathy and make himself appear more innocent than he really is so that he can avoid being questioned about his actions.

To get to the bottom of the "arbitrary and capricious" issue, were other vendors permitted to use dollies, carts, or other wheeled material handling equipment to remove their items prior to the close of the convention?

It's not about using carts it's about following the rules and asking permission ahead of time.

Knowing others were permitted to leave early just adds to the salt in the wound.

Not if they had requested permission ahead of time.

Perhaps Mr. Nafziger didn't know he'd want to be leaving early due to slow sales, and/or wouldn't be feeling well, prior to the end of the convention, and/or that day, so didn't think to request "permission" (which itself is a ridiculous restriction as far as I'm concerned, for grown adults residing in a supposedly "free" country).

He states himself it was due to health problems he's been dealing with for sometime and was planning on leaving early all along.

Many organizations have rules that participants have to follow, even in free countries.

I, for one, would prefer if both sides could just settle this matter amicably and agree to put it behind them. I don't know if either side is amenable to this, but given as how this has become such a flashpoint, and no one who wasn't there can ever truly know what happened, I think both sides just shaking hands and putting it behind them might be the best course.

I don't have a dog or a cat in this fight so I'm not going to make any comment at all unlike those above;)

It's not about using carts

It IS about using carts while the hall is open to the public. That clause is in the contract because it is legally required due to fire codes and liability insurance concerns.

Belle and Blade has been mentioned as one of those leaving early. I know that in the past he has done so, with full permission, in advance, of the Con staff. He packs and loads out on Saturday night because he has another convention to attend halfway across the country starting on Wednesday (EAA Fly-in).

Hilarious. We Brits love watching you chaps across the pond. You're so….you!

Gemeinschaft, meet gesellschaft. George is still acting as though this is a hobby, and the HMGS BOD is responding with the humor, flexibility and awareness of individual cases one associates with Microsoft or Disney. I think an agreement to forget the whole thing and do better next time would be in order--and a lot cheaper than calling in the lawyers.

And I'm with Colonel Bill. Dave is not the man I'd send to "defuse" a situation. No offense, Dave. I'm sure you're a nice guy. But you seriously overestimate your own charm. (And now everyone can say which of my own stats I've got wrong.)

Northern Monkey,

George III, lookin' better all the time.

Take us back? Please?

Bill G

"Hilarious. We Brits love watching you chaps across the pond. You're so….you"

Give us a smug pat pat pat on the head, too please!

Another bloody Yank

Can't argue with the facts…wait, I guess you can (or I should say "there is always someone who can").

Why the shots at Waxtel? What does that have to do with anything?

I have no dog in the fight at all. Never met George. What I find funny is that at 70 years old, he is regarded as being "elderly"!! Seriously, what is the average age of HMGS con attendees? He may have health issues that others do not, but certainly not elderly.

Neli, none of this has to do with anything. This is George still thinking this is a group of friends, and the BOD imagining that the rigidity of large organizations is a feature and not a glitch. It's a tempest in a very small teacup, and all I know about it is the BOD version.

But when I read in my e-mail this morning that "only Mr. Waxtell had any interaction with Mr. Nafziger" I knew it wasn't going to end happily. Some people have a gift of calm, and an ability to keep matters in proportion. Some of us have other gifts. This was sending in George McClellan to conduct a pursuit: the wrong man for the job at hand.

Neli,

Seems obvious to me…the HMGS report is clear that Waxtel was the only person who had an interaction with George. George claims Waxtel behaved in a manner that was inappropriate, which, based on the comments, is consistent with their own experience or knowledge of Dave. The HMGS reports denies he acted in that manner, which appears somewhat inconsistent to those who have commented. At this point it is a he said/he said situation.

Let me relate my own experience at Historicon. As many have previously commented noise was a major issue in the gaming hall. Dave set up his Aspern Essling game several tables away from my table, during a particularly loud period. After setting up Dave decided to add to the noise by setting up and playing his own music system, adding to the crescendo, while he sat and waited for his game to begin. I could hear it and others noted it also. I know at least one GM who approached him and made a good natured remark that he might want to help the noise situation and turn the music off, but that did not happen. Not exactly the Mr. Sensitive described in the report.

I see the slander continues.

In case you missed it, this is what George N. wrote:

"This is a quick note to say good-bye to my east coast friends. We will probably never meet again. I've been banished from HMGS East Conventions because I dared to use my cart to remove my stock before noon at HISTORICON 2019.

It's a sad story. You may know that I had a stroke last year and that I lost vision in my right eye. As elevated blood pressure is the principal causes of strokes, and having had a stroke already, I avoid any unnecessary heavy physical exertion, particularly since it was 90° F plus. Also, because of my degraded vision, when I planned to leave HISTORICON this year, figuring a 500 mile drive and sunset about 8:30-9:00 p.m., I wanted to leave at 11:00 a.m. I'll spare you all the chronology, but it came down to the capricious and discriminatory application of some unwritten rule that I could not leave before noon if I used my cart to haul out a half ton of books, but I could leave if I carried them out by hand one box at a time in 90° F plus weather.

Well, I told them about my stroke and the related issues. I also pointed out to them that I have plantar fasciitis and that my left foot was terribly swollen (yesterday, when I saw a doctor, she thought a first it was broken, but it wasn't); that I could only hobble and every step was incredibly painful. They didn't care. Cart and banishment, or hand carry and suffer or worse!!!! Those were the choices they gave me.

I pointed out to them that vendors were already using carts to haul their goods out of the vendor area, but they denied that. Oh my lying eyes! This "rule" was only being applied only to me because I dared to ask for some consideration and sympathy because of my health situation. The vendor manager countered that it was dangerous to the customers in the vendors' area. Oddly Bell and Blade had left the night before and several had already packed up and left that morning, but I couldn't leave until noon.

Let me describe the vendor's area at 10 a.m. The aisles were a spacious 10' wide and I doubt there was more than 20 customers in the aisles I had to traverse on Sunday when I sought to leave. Oddly, when I came in at 2 a.m., on Thursday and the aisles were thronging with people this was no problem. Then I and my loaded cart were rushed through the masses to my booth. Must be that Sunday shoppers are more at risk than Thursday shoppers because the mechanics of my Thursday ingress was not significantly different from my Sunday egress, but the egress was apparently life threatening.

I pointed out to Mr. Curtis, the vendor area manager, that throughout the convention Game Masters were using carts in the gaming area, which was infinitely more crowded and that they presented "more risk" to attendees than I, but he said that they "were special." Well, I've been attending HMGS East conventions since 1988. I've probably attended 60 of them as a vendor, spending an estimated $15,000 USD USD on tables over the years on vendor space. Odd how I'm not "special" but the game masters are.

Anyway, it came to a head when I spoke with Dave Waxtel, now a member of the HMGS East board, and explained my situation. Bottom line he told me that if I left, "Bleeped text you, you can't come back." I responded in kind and told him I wouldn't be coming back.

Here is what they knew:

1.) I'm a disabled veteran.

2.) I had a stroke a year prior to this show.

3.) I've partially blind in my right eye.

4.) I'm 70 years old.

5.) That I had plantar fasciitis and that every step was incredibly painful.

6.) That my left foot was also very swollen (See #5).

In order to leave when I needed to leave I was given the choice of 40 incredibly painful trip hobbling off carrying in my arms a box of up to 40 lbs of books, drive in the dark, and I could come back; or three trips with my cart and banishment. It was no choice. My health and safety on the road are far more important than attending HMGS East shows.

The HMGS East board has shown itself to be discriminatory against the elderly and they practice elder abuse. They showed no gratitude for 31 years of support to HMGS East conventions.

So my friends, this is adieu. I hope chance brings us together again, but I would not count on it. If you chance to meet any of my other friends, please share this story with them so that rumors don't start spreading again that I've slipped this mortal coil just yet.

George Nafziger "

I have worked security at science fiction conventions for 20+ years, and I was horrified to read the following:

"Mr. Waxtel tried to approach Mr. Nafziger, using humor to defuse the situation."

Humour doesn't work with an obviously distressed and agitated person. Humour will come across as sarcasm. Sarcasm will fan the fires. Congratulations Mr Waxtel, you made a bad situation worse.

It certainly seems that while vendors and HMGS need to have consistent rules and getting and an exception about packing in and packing out – Charges of elderly abuse alone hype this issue way out of proportion.

I am also amazed at the animosity directed at "Mr Waxtel"

Both George and Dave have given a lot to this Hobby

I'm sorry to hear how you were treated George. This shouldn't have happened.

nnascati, exactly when does one become elderly then?

Your statement, "What I find funny is that at 70 years old, he is regarded as being "elderly"!!…..He may have health issues that others do not, but certainly not elderly".

Is it at 80 years old, 90 years, 110 years, 150???

OldNorthState, grab some coffee because you missed a couple of things. Both the Nafziger note and the Board response indicate James Curtis spoke to George initially, so Waxtel was NOT the only person who interacted with him. The fact is Waxtel evidently became the second person involved because Curtis could not resolve the issue

138SqnRAF. Interesting point. I've known Waxtel for a very long time and while we get along I would not ever consider him the close friend George was (yes, was). His personality and his NYC background can make him seem like a jerk even when unintended. I think humor was likely not the best response, and given Dave doesn't do humor well even when he tries . . . there ya go.

Bill G

Still hope to see George at ATC in October.

DisasterWargamer, the charge of elder abuse went a long way to forming my final opinion about George's short, 815 word note and the incident in general. That is a very serious accusation, and as defined by the by Center for Disease Control definition (accepted government wide) is "an intentional act, or failure to act, by a caregiver or another person in a relationship involving an expectation of trust that causes or creates a risk of harm to an older adult." Among several things, it "may include, but is not limited to, violent acts such as striking (with or without an object or weapon), hitting, beating, scratching, biting, choking, suffocation, pushing, shoving, shaking, slapping, kicking, stomping, pinching, and burning." There are also sexual, financial, emotional acts as well.

If this were truly elder abuse I would have expected police involvement.

Bill G

Thresher, the definition of elderly continues to increase as does life expectancy. The CDC says 60+, the UN 65+, some third world countries 40+ and some industrialized Western democracies mid 70's +.

Bill G

#Old Wolfman

"ATC"?

Maybe a better response would have been to acknowledge the health issue, allow Mr Nafziger to leave and to have gotten some volunteers to assist him ?

Thresher, point taken, but I am 69 and very definitely do not consider myself elderly, nor would I want to be treated as such.

#Northern Monkey

So glad we can be of service. Your Brexit machinations have been no end of entertaining.

I'm considering moving to Eire after retirement and starting the Jamaica Inn trucking company. I will smuggle Scotch Whiskey south and Dutch Chocolate north across the "hard" border with the Northern Counties. I plan to dress like the guy from the Captain Morgan commercials.

It'll be great fun.

@KPinder: "Advance the Colors" -- a local con in Ohio.

#79thPA

Tks

The HMGS East board has shown itself to be discriminatory against the elderly and they practice elder abuse.

This is nonsense. Not one thing I've read on any of the threads concerning Nafziger's issues relate in any way demonstrate discrimination against the elderly, let alone elder abuse. Throwing in some baseless allegations does not make his statements factual or true.

Maybe a better response would have been to acknowledge the health issue, allow Mr Nafziger to leave and to have gotten some volunteers to assist him ?

Maybe a better response would have been for Nafziger to read the contract fo the dealer area and notify the director of the dealer's hall about his issues before Sunday, so that accommodations could have been made.

So, if I understand the crux of this, George would have been allowed to leave early if he would have asked in a more timely manner. Is that correct? I understand there are rules, and I understand why there are rules but, in this case, it appears that all one needs to do to be an exception to the rule is to ask permission not to follow the rule. Enforcing the rule at this point seems pretty pedantic.

I would think that anyone would know that addressing this situation with humor or levity is not going to do anything but P off the person who feels aggrieved. A customer service based approach is, "Hi George, I'm Dave. I am the X position for the convention. Tell me about your issue, and let's see how we can resolve it."

If that had happen or what I posted earlier. We wouldn't be here discussing this. Never would have gotten this far.

79th PA, if I understand the Board response correctly, the issue arose when the Exhibit Hall manager, James Curtis, was reminding all vendors to stay open until 12 noon, as is normally done at each convention. It was when he mentioned it to George that he got angry, vice asking for an exception, effectively blindsiding Curtis. I don't think the "asking and refusing" stage of the process was ever done before things got out of hand.

Also, if you read George's post closely and investigate just a little you should find the staff had already made an exception for him. Specifically – and I can personally confirm this – George did not get to the convention and set up until 2 pm Thursday (he says am, but I assume this is a mistype unless the staff let him set up after midnight, then I am REAL impressed). George is a retired O-6 and as such attention to detail should infuse everything, particularly a signed contract. This contract specifies:

"An exhibiting company will be considered a no-show if its booth space is unoccupied 30 minutes before the opening of the Exhibit Hall to the public unless otherwise approved by convention management. In the event exhibitor fails to occupy space, convention management has the right to use said unoccupied space to suit its own convenience, including renting said space to another exhibitor, without rebate or allowance due to defaulting exhibitor. The exhibitor shall be deemed to have cancelled their Exhibit Space Application/Contract for HISTORICON®. HMGS® will require a written explanation of why the company did not show before future participation in any HMGS® convention will be allowed. The exhibit space may be assigned to another exhibitor and HISTORICON® will not provide a refund to the original company. HISTORICON® is not obligated to relocate the exhibitor if they arrive after the deadline."

I have no idea why the staff provided an exception (prior notification maybe?), but this does seem to indicate some flexibility on their part. And quite honestly, they had no obligation to provide George with such an accommodation.

Perhaps what is more troubling than either George or HMGS is that other posters are not taking the time to investigate and learn about issues like this, as they do seem to impact on the situation overall.

Bill G

Well said Col Bill

All of these shows are hectic and stressful. Things can be said at these moments. Shoot, when we were loading Sunday, it was hot, heavy, hectic loading those two trucks, -- Connie got so mad at me she called me a "FAT STUPID UGLY JERK' -- I am sure she did not really mean it.
I don't think so anyway ???????????????????? HMMMM ????

Well, we now have the HMGS' response to the Nafziger email, which was posted up by a TPM'er some days ago.

Unfortunately, read side by side, the two accounts of what happened are irreconcilable.

Ideally, GN and HMGS would have been in contact, and with miles and days separating the parties from the events, a happy happy joy joy resolution might have been reached.

GN would have posted another email reading that HMGS had been in contact with him and, after due consultation, agreed to chalk up the incident (a la Corzin) to too much heat, too much fatigue, too much caffeine, too little sleep, ineffective meds, bunched undies, what have you, and that all had been forgiven.

And that would have been an end of it.

Unfortunately, this, for whatever reason, was not to be.

Many have chosen to believe one version or the other, based primarily on the regard in which they hold one or another of the involved parties. Even if there were more first hand accounts of what happened made available, all they'd do is muddy the waters even more. A video would be a different matter, but none has surfaced.

This whole matter has become like a dead opossum in the middle of the road, baking in the hot sun. It don't smell good. It ain't going anywhere, and if we keep poking it, it's liable to get a lot worse.

Might I suggest we retire to our respective corners, lament a regrettable incident, try not to harbor grudges against anyone going forward, and try to let this be, once and for all.

And in some small way, we should perhaps try to feel for Joby. The man worked his fool brains out, and this ends up being the coda to the con. The poor sob has to be chewing his moustache off right about now.

To be sure, the vendors and the con staff will want to have a little clear the air session to insure everyone is exactly on the same page going forward about Sundays.

"I know not what course others may take, but as for me," I
intend to…

…try to keep an open mind about all the parties involved.

…resume planning for all the sweet upcoming cons.

…dig out a catalog and send Nafziger a nice fat order.

They are the only constructive things I can think to do.

Dons his purty blue UN helmet and crawls under his desk.

@KPinder "Dons his purty blue UN helmet and crawls under his desk." Too funny!

Londonplod, this is HMGS we're talking about. Expecting them to be rational is disingenuous at best.

One of the points that most of the people commenting missed was that HMGS, in the above post, stated that several other people were leaving without permission as well, yet makes no comment as to whether they were harassed about it or not like George was. Perhaps they should have run around and harassed all of them instead of just picking on the elderly guy with health problems. Typical from what I've seen of the organization, though.

Also when someone is upset the best thing to do is hear them out then try to arrive at a workable solution, not demand they follow the rules or make a poor or otherwise attempt at humor. While someone condemned George for acting as though HMGS is still a 'group of buddies', it sounds like Waxtel was trying to approach it from the 'group of buddies' position as well – certainly wasn't a professional approach.

If all it takes to get an exception to the rule is to ask for it (no valid reason required), then there is no point to the rule, or there is no point to pushing it on people.

To argue that it has to do with fire codes is like-wise arbitrary because unless I'm missing something, it's an HMGS rule. HMGS does business at a variety of venues, not all of which have the same venue rules or fire codes. If it's a venue rule or fire code issue, then HMGS could not grant exceptions to it for any reason. Stop the pedantics, HMGS, and just admit you screwed the situation up, regardless of what George said, and stop trying to discredit him – yet another example of the lack of professionalism in HMGS.

Personally, I don't like HMGS. In my dealings with the organization, they (the officers of the organization) have an over-inflated sense of importance (which is really a sense of self-importance, and that's silly because they are not in the least bit important to anyone but themselves) whether paid or not. They like to throw around their power, what little they have, just because they can. And their events are ridiculously overpriced, to boot. Yes, HMGS does arbitrarily enforce rules and make decisions regarding those rules. I know several vendors who have decided not to go back to HMGS events because of the way they were treated. Apparently, HMGS has their favorites; if you're on the list, you get preferential treatment, otherwise, too bad, we're right and you're wrong. Obviously I have no use for HMGS – I don't miss them and never will.

I'm out of popcorn, so abandoning this thread…

James Curtis didn't harass anyone. He did his job and informed people (not just George) about the rules when he caught people breaking them. (His duties aren't limited to just exhibitors. He moves attendees out of the exhibit hall when it's closed at the end of the day.) George is the only one that reacted that way, hence the need to escalate. Mr. Curtis doesn't have the authority to change the rules for anyone and when it became an issue he reported the matter to the Convention Director, as he was supposed to, but it escalated before I could act. It would be chaos if everyone on staff had the authority to make exceptions to rules as they saw fit. So, regardless of what people think of HMGS, the HMGS board, me, etc. Mr. Curtis acted professionally, courteously, and appropriately. – Joby

My point was, others left without receiving prior permission – by HMGS's own admission in the above post. Were they punished for this? Was anything said by HMGS to them after they decided to ignore Mr. Curtis and continue to leave? So if HMGS did not take any action against these individuals that flaunted the rules, why not just let George leave? You see, HMGS pedantics.

Different directors, board and shows, you really cannot make all of the stuff up that has happened after all of these years. We should have a soap opera made. As the convention turns is a good name for it.

Unfortunately, read side by side, the two accounts of what happened are irreconcilable.

This is EXACTLY what I thought when I read the above. If the only harm to either party is ruffled feathers, then let's move on.