"Napoleonic Rules?" Topic

I need your help, because after a long period I would like to play again Napoleonic. The point is that this project will be a "side project", because I'm normally busy, as you all, and actually I'm focused on GNW in 28mm, so I spend my limited time painting Swedish, Russians, Danish and Prussians and if you consider that I'm not a fast painter….
So the question is: is possible to find a set of rules for 15/18mm, tactical or grand tactical without a huge amount of figures needed? An Austrian battalion with 42 figures is nice but I will produce just that in the following 22 years…. Any indication? Thanks in advance

DBN, Volley and Bayonet, The Portable Napoleonic Wargame.

So the question is: is possible to find a set of rules for 15/18mm, tactical or grand tactical without a huge amount of figures needed? An Austrian battalion with 42 figures is nice but I will produce just that in the following 22 years…. Any indication? Thanks in advance

Sure. Neil Thomas' Napoleonic Wargaming link rules have a maximum of c.108 figures per army. Bob Cordery's Portable Napoleonic Wargaming rules have even less link . Phil Barker's Horse, Foot and Guns link have a base of four 15mm figures representing 1500-2500 men, so you can fight a large Corps-sized action with maybe 100 figures per side.

Forgive me for this, but Napoleonics is a period of colour and spectacle, so it may be hard to do with very few figures. I wonder if, as you are painting up GNW, something like Command & Colors may be more suitable. Blocks are not a visual substitute, but definitely quicker than painting a whole new set of armies.

I often wonder if C7C would work with just spray painted "red and blue" armies. Like Memoir does with WW2

Just my two pennies worth.

I'll second Whirlwind concerning rules by both Neil Thomas and Bob Cordery. I've played both and like them.

Napoleonics feel a bit forced into the Portable Wargame, but the game works.

Neil Thomas' rules have a better feel (for me), and if you like grids, can be played on a grid too.

Or maybe skirmish. 100 figures = one company per side of light infantry at about 1:1 – all you'd need.

Command and Colors Napoleonic could be done with 15-18 mm figures without too many figures rather than the blocks. Also, maybe Snappy Nappy and look at YouTube "Little Wars TV" if you have not yet seen it. IMHO.

We've done C&C using 25mm figures without any problems. With 15mm it would be easier and probably look better.

Jim

Maybe "Republique" from the War Times Journal site? 1 element equivalent to a battalion/ regiment.

First of all thanks for your indications.
Marc at work: you are perfectly right when you say that Napoleonics is a period of colour and spectacle, so what I'm looking for is the right balance between the number of figures and the general good effect of the units on the table. Using blocks is not my thing, at that point I will prefer boardgames. I like tactical game, or at least my experience is of that kind. so for example a two brigade per side meeting with unit from 12/16/18 till max 24 figures will be great. Consider that for my GNW project I'm using (waiting) the new rule set BLB2 of Barry Hilton specific for that war, with battalions of 18 figures and squadrons of 6.

Perhaps give Travel Battle a whirl. You can always paint the figs if you want.
link

General d'Armee is a great rule set – proper Napoleonic feel and perfect for a couple of brigades per side. It use small / standard / large battalion sizes. These could be 12 / 16 / 18 figures if you want. Actual number of figures doesn't matter. Many loyal fans and great support from DB himself via the TFL website.

Black Powder is fun and breezy, perfect for a side project. It does not care what size your units are, it simply calls them small, medium and large, and is pretty basing agnostic.

You can start gaming with single ranks and fill in your stands as you go. So you can create 12 man battalions and then flesh them out later.

Thanks again!

+1 Black Powder

Big Battle Shako.

Phil

Snappy Nappy – a unit of 4,000 infantry is represented by 2 stands of 3-4 figures, 800 cavalry – 2 stands of 2 -3 figures, and 20 guns by a gun and 2 – 4 crew.

Thus a Corps would be well under 100 figures total.

"Over the Hills" from Stand To Games is perfect for a 2 brigade a side game. You can use infantry battalions of 4 to 6 bases, each with 4 figures and cavalry units with only 2 figures per base. Allows full range of tactical formations from march column, column of companies through to line. Innovative mechanism to simulate battle attrition (Fatigue score – standard 6 base trained infantry will begin with fatigue score of 6 to 8 depending on nationality, this can be increased or decreased by status, training etc.)

Black Powder works, too. When we started using it, and didn't have a lot of figures, we used 12 figure battalions as the norm in a single rank (medium unit)…Austrians had 16 figures (large unit).

Only later, as we added for figures, did we flesh them out more figures to each unit. But it wasn't required.

The Carnage and Glory computer moderated Napoleonic rules are just what you need. Since all unit strengths are in the computer you can represent the units on the table with as few figures as you wish. You only need to make sure the stands representing a 700 man Austrian battalion take up twice the space on the table as a 350 man French battalion…you decide what the ground scale will be and mount your figures accordingly.

Another vote for Black Powder. I mostly use it for 28mm games, but like raylev3 if we are using 18mm, 12 figures on 3 bases is our 'standard' battalion. As long as both sides are based the same there is no problem with single rank basing.

look at the web side of sho boki, he developed very nice rules

An alternative might be to look at a lower scale of game with lots of Napoleonic flavour: I've heard very good things about Sharp Practice (SP), which seems to be set just above skirmish level – still with 'units'

Infantry units = mostly 6-8 figs, Cavalry = 8 figs, Artillery = 5 figs.

Here's an example French force from 1805-7 –

French Mixed Mobile Column:
Leader Status III
Three Groups of 8 Chasseurs, Musket.
Leader, Status II
Leader I
Two Groups of 6 Voltigeur Skirmishers, Muskets
Leader, Status I
One Group of 8 Dragoons, Carbines & Sabres
Point Value:68
= about 46 infantry figures and 8 cavalry figures.

Purchase link: link

A whole ton (100+) of blog posts tagged SP: toofatlardies.co.uk/blog/?cat=3

Extra Army Lists: toofatlardies.co.uk/blog/?cat=5

Start of a 'how to play' video series:
YouTube link

Another vote for Over the Hills here.
I like this rules very much; we use it for 15mm and 28mm. Although "normal" battalions are 600 men or 24 figures there is no problem if you want to use more or less figures

SHAKO II. Good balance between unit size, playability, and look & feel of the period.

I also recommend Over the Hills, 2nd edition.

In my opinion it works better than Black Powder because it's designed for Napoleonics and gives better games.

You can begin with a brigade a side and then increase numbers if the Napoleonic bug catches on.

Pick any of the above mentioned, they are all winners compared to the dreadfully slow rules of the 70's and 80's.

I remember Napoleonic convention games being ENDED where both sides never even came into contact, because the rules were so large, bloated, and ambitious that the 6 hour game time frame was not enough to teach new players.

Big Battle Shako.

Is this a variant of Shako II? I just played Shako last weekend and liked it, but am also interested in something for larger battles on a reasonable size table.

Thanks

Kim

Big Battle Shako is a game within first edition Shako with the basic unit being a division.

These games were fought in 6mm but equally feasible in 15/18mm:

Wagram:
TMP link

Ohain:
TMP link

Chris

Bloody Big BATTLES!
link
bloodybigbattles.blogspot.com

Big Battle Shako is a game within first edition Shako with the basic unit being a division.

I just got Shako II and that is not part of the second edition rules.

Anyone know where I can get a summery of these rules from the first edition?

Thanks

Kim

Kim , I have used Shako original and still own my copy, I also plan on building 1807 Russians and French/Bavarians for it when I finish my Maurice SYW project. Drop me a line and I can forward you the information for big battle Shako.

"I like tactical game, or at least my experience is of that kind. so for example a two brigade per side meeting with unit from 12/16/18 till max 24 figures will be great."

In case anyone else comes to this thread years later with a similar inquiry, I'll note that many of the responses above are geared to higher-level actions. (I assume the "unit" referred to above is a battalion).

Among the more relevant ones, Black Powder is currently the most in fashion, but if that's not to one's taste then another fairly popular one is Over the Hills.

There have been a lot of freely distributed rules sets with a 1:60 or 1:50 ratio. A couple that are still not too hard to find and that I like are Old Trousers by John P Kelly, and Elan Deluxe by Phillip A. Jones. Adaptation to 1:30 or 1:33 is pretty straightforward, as is conversion from 15s to 28s.

Elan Deluxe pays more attention to tournament-style play, featuring (along with such treatment of terrain placement and so on) both a points system and a large array of costed-out organizations based on historical orders of battle. It also includes Etat Major, an operational campaign game that could mesh not only with Elan but with another tactical rules set.

Republique, found at the War Times Journal site, is a nifty treatment of larger engagements with regiments (typically of 2 or 3 battalions) as the usual basic unit, British brigades being the obvious exception.

General d'Armee is geared to a 1:20 figure to man ratio, so a battalion of 600 would be 30 figures. The name might be misleading; as the scale is so in keeping with predecessor General de Brigade, it might more accurately have been called General de División (with corps perhaps calling for more players as well as a bigger table).

DBN- 40x20mm base of represents a brigade. I play at the less-used 10mm scale & such a base has 10 figures in 2 ranks

Typically a corps would be the smallest all-arms organization. However, if you're not so concerned with chain of command then you could turn slices of a larger battle into much smaller engagements (perhaps 3 or 4 infantry battalions, 3 or 4 cavalry squadrons, and an artillery section or two, per side). Doing that at a 1:50 figure:man ratio makes a 600-man unit 12 figures.

With 1/72 scale soft plastic models, it's common that a box holds 48 infantry, 12 cavalry or 4 guns (and 4+ crewmen for each).

One might start two armies with for each four boxes: one each of infantry, artillery, light and heavy cavalry.

If you go with something along the lines of DBN, using 4 infantry or 3 cavalry per base, you can (at sacrifice of visual appeal) treat each base as a unit.

Call a dozen battalions a division, or a dozen regiments a corps, or a dozen divisions an army of four corps (so each gets an artillery unit).

As your collection grows, you can make bigger and/or more units, and get into more detail with different types of units, generals, etc.

If bases are half as deep as wide, then multiples of four (2 X 2) form bigger bases with the same aspect ratio.