Tango01 | 17 Jul 2019 12:13 p.m. PST |
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charared | 17 Jul 2019 12:46 p.m. PST |
Saw this the other day. Very good! Thanks again Armand! |
von Winterfeldt | 17 Jul 2019 12:49 p.m. PST |
full nonsense, the Prussians fought on to 1807 – people should do proper research instead of regurgitating propaganda |
holdit | 17 Jul 2019 2:06 p.m. PST |
14:15 in the video…"Unlike Saxony, King Frederick William refused to make peace with Napoleon. He continued to hold out in East Prussia, trusting in the approaching Russian armies to rescue his kingdom. Despite another glorious victory for Napoleon and the Grande Armee, the war was not won yet." The only omission from this that I'm aware of is Lestocq's 15,000-odd remnants, which hardly qualifies as an army capable of achieving anything. What other Prussian armies were carrying on the war at that time? |
Brechtel198 | 17 Jul 2019 3:27 p.m. PST |
…people should do proper research instead of regurgitating propaganda You're absolutely correct. Perhaps the following will help you: With the exception of troops in East Prussia and Silesia, the Prussian army was destroyed in three weeks of marching, fighting, and pursuit by the Grande Armee. The haul of prisoners was 140,000-and that total does not include dead and wounded. Further 250 flags and 800 field pieces were taken. The Prussians lost 12,000 killed and wounded at Auerstadt and 11,000 killed and wounded at Jena. Prussian fortresses surrendered to handfuls of French cavalry, and the civilian population meekly succumbed to French occupation. It was the most complete defeat of any nation during the period. The Silesian fortresses were taken by Jerome and Vandamme. The only notable Prussian successes were Gneisenau's successful defense of Colberg and Lestocq's timely intervention on the Russian left flank at Eylau. It didn't help. |
von Winterfeldt | 18 Jul 2019 5:36 a.m. PST |
I was wrong, they fought well into 1807 – played an important part at Eylau – captured even eagles. |
Brechtel198 | 18 Jul 2019 6:34 a.m. PST |
The French indeed lost seven eagles in 1807, but only four were captured at Eylau. One each were lost at Bichersdorf, Heilsberg, and Friedland. Not all of them were lost to any Prussian unit. Most of them were captured by the Russians. Prussian units played no part at Friedland, for example. See Les Aigles Imperiale 1804-1815 by Jean Regnault. No eagles were lost at either Jena or Auerstadt, compared to the 250 Prussian colors taken. |
Tango01 | 18 Jul 2019 12:09 p.m. PST |
This is not going well for you Von Winterfeldt… (smile)
Amicalement Armand
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deadhead | 18 Jul 2019 12:20 p.m. PST |
Thing about the Germans, watch out for them in the second half. They have had a long record of resurrection from the dead. Good job they did turn up in 1815, June 18th…..quite why they did is just insane. Blucher must have been either mad or just totally inspired and a bit lucky (both). I think von W should not be written off just yet. |
von Winterfeldt | 18 Jul 2019 12:49 p.m. PST |
It is going very well, activate common sense, of course the Prussians lost 250 colours at Jena and Auerstedt despite they had only about 60 infantry regiments of two field battalion each, so yeah, roughly 250 colours more or less, and yes when you check the ordre de bataille you will see that all Prussian regiments were present and all lost their colours within five minutes. As said, and any common history book will show that the Prussians fought on till the end of the 1807 campaign and captured eagles. Did they loose 250 colours in the whole war, maybe yes, when fortresses capitulate you will losse you colours. The Prussians "captured" hundreds of French colours in 1815, or 1814 – when they robbed the French their old Republican demi brigade colours, did the capture them in battle – no. I just recommend to read good books, instead watching badly researched fantasy stories or articles, Pascal Bressonnet – a French author would be a good start – just to learn a bit more. Suum Cuique |
holdit | 18 Jul 2019 1:50 p.m. PST |
I think von W is doing what some people (and I can't remember he his is one of them so I won't make the accusation) accuse the more Francophile contributors of doing. Either he's doing it for a wind-up or he just doesn't see the irony. |
18th Century Guy | 18 Jul 2019 3:09 p.m. PST |
Regardless of all this conversation I still think the 1806-1807 period offers some great gaming opportunities. |
von Winterfeldt | 19 Jul 2019 5:57 a.m. PST |
indeed – from triumph to agony (on the French side) – the losses the Grande Armée suffered in 1807 broke the back bone of this up to then formidable fighting machine. |