"How long to tack a Napoleonic era two-decker?" Topic

Not a trick question! I'm interested to learn what AoS naval wargamers here think versus the data I have accumulated.

B

My uninformed guess would be 3 to 5 minutes at the fastest.

Sam Willis in Fighting at Sea in the 18th Century – The Art of Sailing Warfare advises between 5 and 15 minutes depending on a whole raft of factors.

HTH

P

Google ‘tacking square rigged ship' and look for videos. The videos do not show ships of the line, but usually more modern square riggers with amateur crews. Videos vary between 5 and 10 minutes and give you a feel for how it is done.

You should give it a look.

Fastest when the crew get plenty of notice that it is going to happen and the wind and sea are not too bad. Slowest in light airs, a weak/inexperienced crew or if the ship is rolling or pitching.

As PeteW says, too many factors to take into consideration to give more than a guestimate. I doubt many SoL could do it in 3 minutes from 'prepare to tack' to the sails being fully set on the new course.

Courtesy of Mariner's Mirror -
"Some Eighteenth and Nineteenth Century French Trials of Square-rigged Warships Tacking"

French 64 gun two-decker ԤReflechiԬ; tested in West Indies 1785-6

Case 1 – Topsails and Topgallants set, mainsail furled; some swell; Initial Speed = 3.2 knots
0m 00s – Helm put a'lee (Elapsed time starts)
1m 28s – Foresails aback
2m 57s – Wind right ahead
3m 18s – Ship dead in the water
xxxxxx – Ship beginning to make sternway
4m 30s – Ship making way
8m 00s – Ship sailing close-hauled on new tack

- – -

Case 2 – Topsails and Topgallants set, mainsail furled; slight swell; Initial Speed = 5.2 knots
0m 00s – Helm put a'lee (Elapsed time starts)
1m 25s – Foresails aback
2m 00s – Wind right ahead
3m 00s – Ship dead in the water
3m 10s – Ship beginning to make sternway
4m 50s – Ship making way
6m 45s – Ship sailing close-hauled on new tack

Note: Wind abated during last part of maneuver.

- – -

Case 3 – Mainsail, Foresail and Topsails set; some swell; Initial Speed = 3.0 knots
0m 00s – Helm put a'lee (Elapsed time starts)
1m 20s – Foresails aback
2m 00s – Wind right ahead
3m 30s – Ship dead in the water
4m 20s – Ship beginning to make sternway
7m 30s – Ship making way
10m 30s – Ship sailing close-hauled on new tack

- – -

Case 4 – Mainsail, Foresail, Topsails and Topgallants set; very smooth sea; Initial Speed = 5.0 knots
0m 00s – Helm put a'lee (Elapsed time starts)
0m 55s – Foresails aback
2m 00s – Wind right ahead
3m 05s – Ship dead in the water
xxxxxx – Ship beginning to make sternway
4m 15s – Ship making way
4m 45s – Ship sailing close-hauled on new tack

- – -
Case 5 – Mainsail, Foresail, Topsails and Topgallants set; very smooth sea; Initial Speed = 5.5 knots
0m 00s – Helm put a'lee (Elapsed time starts)
0m 60s – Foresails aback
1m 35s – Wind right ahead
2m 30s – Ship dead in the water
2m 45s – Ship beginning to make sternway
3m 50s – Ship making way
?m ??s – Ship sailing close-hauled on new tack

Very interesting material, suggesting that the tacking maneuver was a very delicate process, requiring ‘₯spot on‘¦ timing, a deft touch and the cooperation of the gods of wind and sea to execute with full efficacy.

More later. Have to go pick some pizza right now.

B

Blutarski, what size of vessel is it being sailed ?

Tacking a 28 in a normal breeze with an experienced
crew in a normal sea is one thing.

Tacking a French (inexperienced crew) 3-decker in a
gale with 12 foot waves running is a totally different
thing…

Hi Ed –
French 64 gun two decker, circa 1785

The article has some similar data on tacking a French 20 gun Corvette. if you are interested.

The best information I've obtained regarding three-deckers comes from Boudriot; he comments time to tack being as great as 15 minutes under certain conditions (which he unfortunately did not indicate).

So ….. If I can make it up to Raleigh for Southern Front in September, are you interested to play in one of my "Steer to Glory" games??

B

Interesting. Is there a similar source for a British or
American Whaling crew tacking and the time ?

French mariners, with some notable exceptions, not the
hardiest among those in the 18th and early 19th C.

'Steer to Glory' – I'm in ! I shall proudly serve as a
loblolly boy, down in the orlop !

More tacking information, FWIW -

French 20 gun Corvette Tourtereau – tested in West Indies, 1785.

Case 1 – No details re sail carried or sea state; Initial Speed = 4.0 knots
0m 00s – Helm put a'lee (Elapsed time starts)
1m 20s – Foresails aback
1m 40s – Wind right ahead
2m 55s – Ship dead in the water
3m 40s – Ship beginning to make sternway
5m 05s – Ship making way
6m 45s – Ship sailing close-hauled on new tack

- – -

Case 2 – No details re sail carried or sea state; Initial Speed = 3.5 knots
0m 00s – Helm put a'lee (Elapsed time starts)
2m 05s – Foresails aback
2m 45s – Wind right ahead
3m 10s – Ship dead in the water
3m 50s – Ship beginning to make sternway
4m 45s – Ship making way
7m 20s – Ship sailing close-hauled on new tack

B

BTW – My interpretation of the phrase "Making Way" = the act of the ship falling off (or rotating away) from being pointed into the Eye of the Wind toward a Close-hauled heading on the new tack.

B

Excellent data, thanks for posting it.

The thing I find most surprising is how fast some vessels are going under just tops and topgallants. 5 or more knots seems like a good head of speed, especially on a smooth sea.

- Ix

What I found interesting is in most all cases Ship Dead In the Water right around 3 minutes

Also note that it seems to progress more quickly if the ship's initial speed is higher…

French 64 – moving at 3.2 knots – completes tack in 8 minutes

Same ship – moving at 5.2 knots – completes tack in 6 minutes 45 seconds

And so on. Obviously, the ship's existing momentum helps carry it through the maneuvers more quickly.

Gents if you are interested in this stuff I do recommend Sam Willis' Fighting at Sea in the 18th Century – The Art of Sailing Warfare. He has trawled through many primary records to gain an insight as to how the AOS ships were sailed and fought, and perhaps more interestingly how the reality of this differs from the perceived theory.

A good deal of time is spent looking at tacking, wearing and the other manoeuvres undertaken, the level of sails set and how this affected the tactical decisions made, but always with the need to understand sea and wind conditions.

My admiration for the AOS sailor and Captain greatly increased as a result of reading the book.

P

As mentioned above there are several square rig tacking videos on YouTube. The link below gives the best one I found. Though a late 19th century merchant ship, the method is the same and well described. As an answer to your question, this filmed tack took 5 minutes under these conditions.

YouTube link

It will also give an appreciation of why tacking under fire is almost never done. Strongly recommend watching it

Ed Mohrmann:

Interested in how a whale ship does it? This is the 1840 whaler CW Morgan tacking a few years ago:

YouTube link

Thanks, Dan ! Given the construction of whalers
I was interested to see one tacking for real.

While on the subject of Sam Willis, his original doctoral dissertation is available for free download via the British Library Ethos archive.

B

"It will also give an appreciation of why tacking under fire is almost never done"

Things that no sane captain would attempt in the real world do occasionally make an appearance in the AoS wargaming world (no matter how dire the warnings by the game-master). In my rules, under favorable weather conditions, it takes (more or less) six turns to complete a tack. I have on occasion had players who insist upon tacking in the midst of a close range gunnery exchange get their ships crippled in that span of time by a clever opponent who would simply heave to close under the stern of the tacking ship and blast it with several broadsides of oblique/raking fire.

I suspect that the problem may rest in the fact that a lot of AoS rules treat tacking as a very perfunctory exercise: turn up into the wind on turn 1; spin your ship around to the new tack on turn 2; off you go on the new tack on turn 3 ….. like a little Hobie-Cat.

B

Exactly, Blutarski.

From what I've read, many, many captains/admirals chose to wear their vessels instead of tacking.

Apparently the latter could be quite dangerous on its own, when things go wrong – loss of masts, sails, etc., etc..

Perhaps we need rules that make that a bit more likely, especially when in close contact with the enemy.

Hi Thresher,
My only comment would be that the tacking maneuver was not inherently dangerous in and of itself. Tacking was quite commonplace and very reliable under normal conditions of wind and sea. Affairs could, however, be a great deal more dicey trying to tack in heavy weather. John Harland's book "Seamanship in the Age of Sail" is a good reference source on this. Another reference I found comnpelling was Pellew's account of being forced to tack Indefatigable off a lee shore at night in a heavy gale after his engagement with Droits de l'Homme.

The risky part would (IMO) be trying to execute a tacking maneuver while under fire. The ship is more or less motionless and usually not under command of its rudder. That means the ship is unable to bring its broadsides to bear on a threatening target. In addition, the ship is, at least for a period of time, pointed into the Eye of the Wind with sails upon its foremast aback; if, for example, a forestay is shot away, there is a risk of the foretopmast or perhaps the entire foremast being toppled (VERY bad news); if some important part of the running rigging is shot away, the ship might fall into irons.

By comparison, wearing was always considered the far safer evolution when under fire.

FWIW (notice how my "only comment" morphed into three or four – my bad)

B