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"Were (Irish) black shields a thing?" Topic


9 Posts

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1,987 hits since 26 Jun 2019
©1994-2024 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Korvessa26 Jun 2019 9:08 p.m. PST

Seems like in a couple of novels I read that some Irish had black shields – supposedly representing no quarter or some search. In the WAB supplement one of the Irish units has all black shields.
I have been unsuccessful in my Google attempts to learn more. Were black shields a thing?
Did it have meaning?

Waco Joe27 Jun 2019 10:57 a.m. PST

I would think that would rise to a level of organization that Irish warbands typically eschewed. (or were incapable of)

Swampster29 Jun 2019 9:52 a.m. PST

Cu Chulainn's shield was black*, in contrast to the Ulstermen who had 'silver' (white?) shields.

* or at least named 'Black'.

Asteroid X30 Jun 2019 3:12 p.m. PST

Korvessa, it would depend upon what era the novels were meant to be set in whether or not this (no quarter) would even be a possibility to be entertained.

If it was in the pagan era, it is possible.

If it was post-St. Patrick and in the Catholic era, it would not be possible.

Korvessa01 Jul 2019 12:01 p.m. PST

Thanks all. That helps.

Swampster01 Jul 2019 3:42 p.m. PST

I doubt conversion to Christianity would have altered whether quarter was given or not. Brian Boru certainly gave no quarter in one battle. Earlier, at the battle of the book, I have no idea whether no quarter was given, but 3000 men are said to have died in an argument at least in part over the ownership of a bible.

Asteroid X02 Jul 2019 8:20 a.m. PST

Brian Boru was fighting pagans who had shown their utter disregard for common decency (attacking for no reason other than theft, murder, rape, etc) and treachery.

That is more like a death-sentence being pronounced upon the guilty than any comparison to someone surrendering or yielding.

The two cannot be compared.

Throwing Battle of Cúl Dreimhne (Battle of the Book,) which took place at Cairbre Drom Cliabh (County Sligo,) in 561 AD into this, while trying to connect to quarter when you openly admit you have no clue, to slight Christianity is just low…

Swampster02 Jul 2019 1:15 p.m. PST

No slight intended to Christianity. Just no more – or less – evidence for 'no quarter' before Christianity as after. I mentioned the Battle of the Book purely to show that Christianity had not stopped warfare between Christian Irish. I've seen nothing to suggest it changed the nature of that warfare either, other than the monasteries and their lands were another source for military manpower.

Since the order was given to slaughter all the Viking men of fighting age – whatever the justification – then this is an order of giving no quarter.
I have little doubt that many of those giving no quarter in other times and places also thought they were avenging some wrong.

Korvessa02 Jul 2019 2:10 p.m. PST

I am looking at the 1150 era

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