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"Russian Organization and Uniforms 1796-1805 " Topic


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Napoleonic

796 hits since 24 Jun 2019
©1994-2019 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

MiniPigs24 Jun 2019 7:55 a.m. PST

Is there a good authority for this? Something clear and concise?

Questions I have include but are not limited to:

Did Russian grenadiers all wear the mitre or just some? What units wore the fusilier miter?

In the later part of this period did Guard wear the shako with bushy plume?

14Bore24 Jun 2019 10:37 a.m. PST

link
The mitre issue is fairly plotted out when units changed, the fusilier miter is shorter but as figures hard to come by I bailed out on that idea on the few Grenadiers I have them. By end it was shakos for all but Pavlov, plumes were thin.

MiniPigs24 Jun 2019 11:12 a.m. PST

Thanks for the resource. I am thinking of doing them in 18mm and AB Figures does the fusilier mitre and both the grenadier mitre and the bushy, shako plume.

Wait, the Russian guard in 1805 used a thin plume? Does anyone have an illustration of this?

14Bore24 Jun 2019 12:09 p.m. PST

1805 were still bushy plumes, by 1812 they were thin.
I have units in both

Gunfreak Supporting Member of TMP24 Jun 2019 2:29 p.m. PST

For those doing 28mm, perry just released the fusilier mitres.

Cuprum224 Jun 2019 9:56 p.m. PST

All grenadier regiments had a miter. All the soldiers in the grenadier regiment were divided into grenadiers and fusiliers. One company in the regiment was grenadier and five – fusilier. The grenadiers had a miter with a brush at the top – fusilier – a miter without a brush. From 1805, the grenadier miter began to be replaced by a shako. The replacement was made gradually, as the miter's service life expired, and they were used in some shelves for another couple of years.
Thin plumes were introduced in 1811.

jimcdaw25 Jun 2019 8:22 a.m. PST

If I recall correctly, In 1802 the Russians switched to a 3 battalion regiment for both line and grenadiers. Each line regiment had 1 battalion of grenadiers and 2 battalions of musketeers. Each grenadier regiment had 1 battalion of grenadiers and 2 battalions of fusiliers. Each battalion had 4 companies.

MiniPigs25 Jun 2019 8:33 a.m. PST

Did the 1802 grenadier battalion of the line regiments fight with their parent units or were they stripped and brigaded together with other grenadier battalions?

Also, what was the hitting power of the fusiliers? Were they more like musketeers in quality or more like the grenadiers in their regiments?

Widowson25 Jun 2019 8:46 a.m. PST

I've heard it said that elite status in a wargame should ONLY be given to the grenadier battalions of grenadier regiments. For what that's worth. I don't know where Cuprum2 gets his information, but it looks to me like just about every word is incorrect.

14Bore25 Jun 2019 12:43 p.m. PST

Most oob seem grenadier regiments stayed together, they didn't composite battalions like the Prussians.

Stoppage25 Jun 2019 2:06 p.m. PST

@widowson

Perhaps a gentle nudge to nourish new members would be appropriate?

Cuprum225 Jun 2019 6:13 p.m. PST

Napoleonica is not in my area of interest. But I have a large amount of literature in Russian, on uniform and organization of troops.
I apologize for unwittingly misleading you about the organization of the grenadier regiment. jimcdaw is right I, because of my carelessness, used information on the organization of the regiment for the previous period.

Everything else that I wrote is true.

I use the book Ulyanov I. "History of Russian troops. Regular infantry 1801 – 1855". Ulyanov is a recognized expert in this matter.

Widowson26 Jun 2019 12:17 p.m. PST

Cuprum,

Don't worry about it. I've been trying to build a Russian army in miniature and it's frustrating. The Russians are a very peculiar bunch. What little I know is hard to keep straight in my head. Just the fact that their infantry regiments aren't numbered is enough to drive one mad. Items like flags and miters are downright mysterious.

14Bore,

The Russians did have composite grenadier units, at least from 1812 on. I think they were drawn from grenadier companies in depot battalions, which was a new thing to the Russians – I think.

Widowson26 Jun 2019 12:18 p.m. PST

Cuprum2 – If you read Russian you could be a VERY valuable resource to this group.

14Bore26 Jun 2019 1:34 p.m. PST

I have built my Russians on Borodino, in 1813 casualties piled up and lots of regiments were amalgamated.

French Wargame Holidays26 Jun 2019 11:40 p.m. PST

It is confusing, the link is very good, particularly about mitres

Cheers
Matt
French Wargame Holidays
L'Hotel de Hercé
Mayenne, pays de Loire
France
"Walk the battlefield in the morning, Wargame it in the afternoon"©

Cuprum227 Jun 2019 2:34 a.m. PST

I will be glad to be useful. Unfortunately, I can not always respond to the forum regularly.

Here is a link to changes in the organization of the Russian army in the early 19th century. Alas – in Russian. I recommend to try to read Google translator. There are of course mistakes when translating, but the general meaning of what is written is easy enough to catch. If something is not clear – I am ready to help.

link

Practically comprehensive information on the uniform of the Russian regular infantry is in the book Sergey Popov "Army and garrison infantry of Alexander the First – Regimental uniforms". Information is given in the form of such tablets:

Information on Russian banners is in the book Zvegintsov VV- "Banners and standards of the Russian army".

Major Bloodnok27 Jun 2019 3:02 a.m. PST

In 1805 the grenadiers bns. weren't removed to creat grenadier brigades. However, you do see individual bns. of musketeers and grenadiers stripped from their parent reg't. and assigned to other brigades / columns.

Stoppage27 Jun 2019 3:34 a.m. PST

мой мозг слишком мал, чтобы понимать буквы кириллицы

Cuprum227 Jun 2019 4:06 a.m. PST

I can't translate the whole book for you. But I can answer a specific question.

The table below provides information on the Ufa Musketeer / Infantry Regiment; Phanagoria Grenadier Regiment; Kherson Grenadier Regiment (from top to bottom)

MiniPigs01 Jul 2019 7:15 p.m. PST

Someone needs to produce an English version of this book!

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