pushing tin | 04 Jun 2019 1:06 a.m. PST |
Hi, here are various 6mm Napoleonics I've been working on over the last couple of weeks link
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Frostie | 04 Jun 2019 2:41 a.m. PST |
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Footslogger | 04 Jun 2019 5:11 a.m. PST |
Even in that scale, Napoleon looks like he's not having a good day. |
4th Cuirassier | 04 Jun 2019 8:04 a.m. PST |
Anything smaller than 15mm just looks like a flea circus to me. |
Frederick | 04 Jun 2019 9:11 a.m. PST |
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deadhead | 04 Jun 2019 9:34 a.m. PST |
4th C. That is just sheer fleacircophobic. We must all be "inclusive" now and welcome the diversity of our less fortunate insect brethren. |
4th Cuirassier | 04 Jun 2019 10:35 a.m. PST |
How can you include what you can no longer see? One day I'll consider 28mm to be a flea circus. Unless they've inflated to 40mm by then, which is possible. |
deadhead | 04 Jun 2019 11:56 a.m. PST |
Funny enough, I have my two yearly check with the optician tomorrow at 0950 BST. My father always warned me that the solitary vice would make me go blind…. At least that was the story in Waterford and Tipperary…. As for this "scale". I think, if I again threw dice, I would go even smaller for massive Napoleonic battles of manoeuvre. I found even 1/300 WWII was fought at ridiculously short ranges, but I did want to be able to tell the tanks apart. The names on the 2eDB Free French Shermans were tricky though…
A 6mm mameluke in attendance on L'Empereur is a nice touch though.
Actually I do not think he has shown his very best photos. See that Bavarian cannon with the limber and crew for example (brilliant). Or the wrecked gun. This is much better modelling/painting than the previews suggest….
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pushing tin | 04 Jun 2019 1:14 p.m. PST |
Thanks All the more reason to follow the link to my blog :) As for 15mm or 28mm giants, well think of the amount of paint you save! I still haven't finished the same pot of blue paint I use for the French I opened 20 years ago, after 1000's of troops… |
Aethelflaeda was framed | 04 Jun 2019 2:09 p.m. PST |
After a certain point it comes down to whether you prefer painting, looking at, and handling sculpts or would be happier with cardboard counters. 6mm is definitely the line I won't cross. I am not even happy with 10mm but for fighting Wagram, Borodino, or Leipzig on a small table I can see the appeal. |
pushing tin | 04 Jun 2019 2:22 p.m. PST |
I think you are being a bit harsh comparing 6mm with cardboard counters, I can't see the point of representing a battalion with a half a dozen figures, but each to their own… |
Aethelflaeda was framed | 04 Jun 2019 3:22 p.m. PST |
Maybe a little harsh, but I will play with yours if they are my only choice. Still I do love seeing the distinct uniforms well painted that 15s can provide. You paint your 6s and I'll paint my 15s and we will all be happy. We can both look askance at those evil 54mm guys and don't get us started at those board gamers… |
wrgmr1 | 04 Jun 2019 6:04 p.m. PST |
Many years ago I painted up over 2000 British/Allied Heroics and Ross 6mm figures. |
pushing tin | 05 Jun 2019 1:03 a.m. PST |
I must have around 12,000 Napoleonic 6mm figures by now, and that's just counting the painted Napoleonic ones. I also have ACW, Dark Ages, Colonial, Renaissance, Samaurai, WW1, WW2…etc. I do also dabble in 15mm, for Medieval and Fantasy. |
4th Cuirassier | 05 Jun 2019 1:41 a.m. PST |
So, if you spend this weekend painting, you'll have 24,000 Napoleonic 6mm figures.. |
pushing tin | 05 Jun 2019 2:07 a.m. PST |
I like to spend a bit more time on my painting than that, this has accumulated over 20 years or so. |
deadhead | 05 Jun 2019 8:13 a.m. PST |
Your cannon have dolphins easily seen, your artillerymen are correctly placed around the guns, your Bavarian limber is just brilliant. 6mm can show detail, you have clearly shown. Interesting debate this has sparked off. Some of us want to paint buttons on cuffs, yet sometimes create a unit to stick on a shelf and look at. In which case a dozen men are meant to look like a cavalry regiment, in 28mm.
Some instead want to throw dice, create villages and streams and hills and forest and to manoeuvre realistic looking units. None of us have arms that can reach four foot into the middle of a table, so 28mm requires a lot of densely packed figures, fighting in firing lines inches apart. I have to say any scale bigger than 6mm cannot easily capture the look of a Napoleonic pitched battle (with notable exceptions shown here on occasion, presented at national meetings).
28mm for collectors, 6mm or smaller for wargaming realistically. Light the fuse and step back…..
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forwardmarchstudios | 05 Jun 2019 10:43 a.m. PST |
I'm a proponent of the 2mm Revolution.
And how many 1:1 scale model palaces have you ever seen on a 28mm game board? link I only know kinship from 6mm on down. That said, at 1:1 figure-to-troop ratios in 2mm, the footprint for infantry units is actually pretty close to the foot print for small-unit 28mm games. On another note, all of the models above could be printed for under $100 USD, and could be painted in a weekend. This is a huge advantage of 2mm. 3mm is also pretty good, if a bit maximalist… |
deadhead | 06 Jun 2019 11:07 a.m. PST |
That is so 3mmophobic…."judge me by my size would you?" Seriously though…..your pictures totally make my point. That looks realistic. An aerial view of a Napoleonic battlefield. It is amazing what can be done in the smallest scales these days. I wish Pushing tin would post his Bavarian limber and gun. If he does not, then I will! |
pushing tin | 06 Jun 2019 1:53 p.m. PST |
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4th Cuirassier | 07 Jun 2019 2:25 p.m. PST |
I measured the apparent height of the figures in these images and found them to be about 25mm tall. I therefore reduced the zoom to 25%, to make the approximately 6mm tall, and thus to admire them "in scale" as it were. While I can appreciate the artistry and dedication in painting them, I'm afraid when thus seen actual size and actual distance, it is completely wasted on me. At a realistic viewing distance and zoom I can't even identify the era and from 4 or 5 feet away I doubt I would be able to see them at all. The same issue pervades all minis of course to some extent. |
von Winterfeldt | 07 Jun 2019 11:18 p.m. PST |
very nice armies giving a good impression, yes – much more preferable to just card board counters – in my view. |
LeonAdler | 07 Jun 2019 11:32 p.m. PST |
Blimey if you cant see a 6mm Napoleonic unit from 3 feet away you need to see an an optician urgently. With 6mm you appreciate the figures while your painting them, basing them and when close up to a unit. At the table level its the fact that the figures look in scale to the terrain, that 'proper' formations are apparent and the whole Napoleonic mass effect is there. If you ideas revolve around the idea of figures as an induvidual rather than as units then obviously 6's are not going to be for you. What I really dont understand is the vehemence and aggression people express over figure scales, its almost as if some people find the idea that others might not value their particular choices as some sort of insult, akin to suggesting someone is a poor driver lol Different scales for different period and types of games its as simple as that. L |
LeonAdler | 08 Jun 2019 3:05 a.m. PST |
Oh and |I should have added nice work on the figures :) L |
deadhead | 08 Jun 2019 3:52 a.m. PST |
I think the discussion has been very interesting and, by TMP standards, courteously conducted. There can be no doubt that, en masse, 6mm (indeed 2 mm figures even more) do look realistic and battles can be fought to some kind of scale on a table. Scenery has a sensible footprint, whether buildings, forests or hills. The snag is of course, as 4th C says, the individual figures are hard to distinguish at ant distance…again, much like the real thing! I like to see buttons on the cuffslashes (I could only fit two on most my 28mm Netherlands HA figures though). That is the figure size I want to see on a shelf and I can try to create a British Guards regt in line from 26 figures. But if I wanted to throw dice once more I would go back to my 6mm Horsas, Wacos and Hamilcars.
I am so glad we did get the Bavarians posted here. I suspect not everyone realises how small 6mm figures are and the magnification used here. Great work. |
4th Cuirassier | 08 Jun 2019 8:42 a.m. PST |
I think they are very nicely done. The problem (for me) would be figuring out what they are at tabletop ranges. If I were starting again I would focus on whatever scale allowed the correct frontage and depth then populate the bases accordingly. If that required 6mm figs I would then need someone else to paint them… It is an issue at all scales. One tends to paint 28mm figure to koog good individually from a foot away. In 30 figure units four feet away they look quite different. |
pushing tin | 08 Jun 2019 1:28 p.m. PST |
Well thanks for the compliments everyone. I have never had a problem telling what they are with Napoleonics, it can be a problem for other periods where the uniforms are less distinct. For example my ECW cavalry have theoretically got different colour sashes, in practise it is difficult to pick this out at a distance and tell roundhead from cavalier. But, as has been mentioned, various ways can be used to get around this such as formation differences. I have taken to using slightly different colours of scatter and flock where appropriate. Very occasionally someone will pick up an opponents troops in these difficult to distinguish periods, but we treat this as all part of the battle of 'mistaken identity'with some kind of off the cuff forfeit imposed and it rarely happens. I think this is more than made up for with the overall effect over the whole table looking like a battle rather than a skirmish, and usually over an area no bigger than 6ft x 4ft. There are plenty of examples on my blog of 6mm in action covering the last 9 years of pushing tiny tin over my well-worn table, if you want some ideas of the effect link |
forwardmarchstudios | 08 Jun 2019 1:56 p.m. PST |
6mm are so huge and maxmalistI don't understand how anyone could possibly mistake the uniforms. They're practically life-size ; ) The only thing I might say about the posted figs is that, given those are Austrians, a slightly darker basing medium might be appropriate. It will throw the white of the uniforms into more relief against the base. Of course, the lighting might have something to do with that. But in general they look great! |