"ACW Battlefields Lose Crowds" Topic

link

Are kids today really not taught about the Civil War in any part of their K-12 education? I find that hard to believe.

My daughter got 8 weeks on slavery, the war, and Reconstruction…

" The fatal 2015 shooting of nine black churchgoers in Charleston, S.C., by a white man who had embraced the Confederate battle flag and the 2017 white-nationalist rally around a Robert E. Lee statue in Charlottesville, Va., has transformed how people view Confederate imagery and, in turn, Civil War-related historic sites."

"HAS TRANSFORMED"…well, there you go. They answered the question right there. One simple answer, right there in front our eyes the whole time!

Thing seem to run in cycles. Maybe the "wow, a Civil War historical site" is in the down cycle.

From what I can tell … much history taught in schools is broad, general and skewed by PC.

So the Union side gets thrown out with the bad Confederates?

As a retired high school history/economics teacher of 35 years I would not be able to say whether or not "much history taught in schools is broad, general and skewed by PC." I have no data to support or refute that conclusion. History is, of necessity, broadly taught. Most teachers are teaching to get kids through state testing. That is how you, the public, judge education. My son is also a history teacher and he tells me that he has lost up to three weeks of actual teaching time due to administering tests not to mention the time taken to review for those tests. The Civil War in my state is usually handled in middle school. As a high school teacher my required history classes started at the end of reconstruction. On the other hand I taught an elective on US military history ( a semester course so also broadly covered) where the Civil War was covered but only as a military event.
My solution would be to make school a year round thing. Write a state curriculum that would present the war as a political, military, economic, social and moral issue. I don't think this brief snippet is an all inclusive response but I have better things to do. So the rest of you fire up the popcorn; I'm reading a book on Confederate Ordinance officer Josiah Gorgas. H

I'am sorry even when I was in HS (1977-1980) The Civil war was 7 weeks on slavery,1 week on the war and 7 weeks on Reconstruction and Jim Crow laws.

Is Interest in Civil war declining in the general public? Yes, but so is World war 2, the wild west, and History in general. People are more interested in GOT then the real world events its based on.

The American Civil war had a huge boost in the 1990's due to Ken Burn's series and the Movie Gettysburg and has drop off since then.

In a world of black and white politics it is a easy turn off to young people and can be a hard trip for older people.

I still think it has a very really and important story to tell us and shouldn't be forgot or editted.

What was that old saw about those who forget history ?

Oh, yes…perhaps we are already starting to 'be there'.

Read Gibbon, if you can. The parallels to our current
circumstance are equally remarkable and frightening…

"Lies My Teacher Told Me : Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong" by James W. Loewen

Confederates in the Attic: Dispatches from the Unfinished Civil War by Tony Horwitz

Spent 20 plus years refuting Neo-Confederates' propaganda, myths, lies and ignorance on the web, including on this site. Finally tired of it and now just accept that these people exist.

The younger generation is taught, as expressed, what states and the Federal government wants tested. Simple economics drives sales of history text books written for large markets (think Texas) and cascade through the rest of the country. I'll leave it at that.

Americans have never been able to really produce historical films, so most Americans are ignorant of their own history or believe in the Hollywood dramas made occasionally. I'll not even get started on the lack of most of the population's willingness/ability to read in search of actual knowledge.

If one is old enough, and I am, growing up with WWII veterans and being aware that there were still ACW living veterans (I am an Army brat), exposure to Bruce Catton in the 60s, a good liberal arts education, a family that traveled widely, and an addiction to reading, one has a decent foundation for a background in history. The rest, not so much.

Dan

I don't remember how much coverage the Civil War got during my days in school -- before the centennial (I graduated from college in 1961), but it wasn't much. I remember being surprised when I learned that Lincoln was president during the war -- we had learned about him (and Washington) every February! (log cabin, walked miles to return a book, maybe even a mention of freeing slaves, chopped down a cherry tree -- oh, wait, that was the other one!) And this when there was a half-century less of American history to cover!

As for movies (and probably text books), they couldn't afford to offend the South, so at best you got a sanitized or (worse) pro-Confederate slant.

My father-in-law, who grew up in Texas, said he never knew the South lost the war until he joined the Navy!

Guys, if you wanted to teach the Civil War in high school, where would you get the teachers? And who would teach them? There used to be three universities in the entire US with PhD programs in military history. I don't think it's that good today. Check the faculty bios in respectable university history departments, and try to find anyone who could be counted on to understand the difference between a rifle and a smoothbore musket. And it's much, much worse at teachers colleges.

We were run out of academia 40-50 years ago, and they're not about to invite us back in.

I got a BA in history in 1978. The "premier" ACW professor, a very knowledgeable fellow, if a bit of a martinet, would have said being able to tell the difference between 2 ACW cannons wasn't history, it was antiquarianism.

When at Harpers Ferry a few years ago, I wandered into an introductory talk being given by a ranger to an older group, presumably from a bus tour. The ranger asked them various questions, such as who commanded the troops that captured John Brown? Who was his second in command? And so on. After answering the questions that none of the bus party could answer, I felt compelled to tell them that they should be embarrassed that the Australian knew more about their history than them. Not sure if being a smart arse Aussie helps with international relations. By the way, the teaching of our own history is much more dire than your situation.

" Simple economics drives sales of history text books written for large markets (think Texas) and cascade through the rest of the country. I'll leave it at that."

Don't forget that California and New York are driving forces in text book writing.

The South has long been the most patriotic/conservative section of the US. Take a look at military enlistment on a state by state basis and you'll see that this is the case. As such there has been a concerted attack on southern culture for years. We see it in academia, social media, pop culture, etc.

One way to break down that southern culture is to turn the ACW from a multi-faceted conflict with good and bad on both sides, (you know – humans), into a childish good guys vs bad guys fight. With the vast majority of ACW sites in the south, and the Confederates now being painted as evil, is it any surprise visitation has fallen off?

What was that old saw[ing] about those who forget history ?

In some case I've heard some people in the North want to take down Union Soldier statues? What they can't even tell the difference physically or otherwise ? Even some don't want statues of soldiers to be carrying weapons ?

Just this past week a monument in Baltimore was desecrated with spray paint. (Nothing that can't be remedied). It read "White lies."

The monument was to commemorate Casimir Pulaski, founder of Pulaski's Maryland Legion, an AWI unit. Bozos don't even know when they're getting bent over the wrong war.

"Lies My Teacher Told Me : Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong" by James W. Loewen

This was a book I recently gave away. I frequently cite it as an example of historical revisionism simply replacing one historical myth with another.

Don't forget that California and New York are driving forces in text book writing.

Texas market clout comes from the state ordering textbooks for the entire state, rather than each school district ordering their own.

We were run out of academia 40-50 years ago, and they're not about to invite us back in.

I would say it wasn't so much a running out of academia as an abandonment of it. When was the last time you heard a kid who was bright, motivated and informed and was graduating at the top of his class say he wanted to be a high school teacher.

@KPinder-Some people are just idiots. That hasn't changed. What has changed is that they can now get more attention.

Still munching my popcorn but a +1 to Bill N and donlowry. H

How many of the US population have nowadays an event distant relation with that conflict? as in "their history"? especially of the young ones; we have the same in western Europe. Plus everything else said above of the will to obliterate our pasts.

I know a number of Americans here have mentioned they had someone who served in ACW[and other wars as well]. But I think generally they may be in the minority in the overall US population at this time. As well as many may not know … or even really don't care sadly …

Oh wow, another thread on the horrors of the US education system already?

I do love the Patriotic Chest thumping and holier (more patriotic) then thou slant of this one.

Many of the people who did have a relative in the ACW don't know about.

In Virginia, I am not sure my kids were taught anything except the ACW in history. OK, maybe a bit of exaggeration, but growing up in Ohio, it felt like a lot of focus.

DOM took a few military history classes for her undergraduate history degree. One wanted the class to design a game related to Operation Barbarossa. The prof could find three whole games on OB as examples!

From what I can tell … much history taught in schools is broad, general and skewed by PC.

Having taught US History for fifteen years in both High school, community colleges, and as an adjunct professor as well as trained teachers in twenty different states over my 35 year career I can say categorically:

It depends. It depends on the state, the teacher and the school board.

It depends on the state: PC usually originates in the state government and text book adoptions… the committees who determine which textbooks to adopt often include folks who have hardline agendas. For instance, in one textbook adoption in California, only women were mentioned in the formative years of the Colonies and USA.
In some Southern states, there were no slaves, only indentured servants and 'workers.'

It depends on the Teacher: Regardless of what the textbook says, Teachers have final input into curriculum and how it is taught. There are some textbook marathon runners [It's February 12th, so we must be on page 210.] and some fantastic teachers who bring the general down to the student, going for deep understanding.

It depends on the School Board/community. I have seen terrific programs built and supported and others squashed because of new board member does or doesn't think the subject is as important as say math, or wants to spend money on their pet program rather than history materials/textbooks… Or they just don't like the teacher. [Gave their son an 'F']

And of course, it may be that the Civil War has a high profile in a community for various reasons, so a lot is known by students, even before any history class.

Schools in the US are very much community and state entities and there is very little uniformity across the US. Hence efforts like 'No Student Left Behind' and 'All Students Succeed' and the dreaded national proficiency tests…

Bottom line. It is very hard to make any generalizations about history education in the US.

As McLaddie said it varies greatly. I've taught history in 2 different districts that are 15 minutes away from each other. One took a deep dive. Kids spent about 3 months on the civil war in US history. Those kids knew their stuff. The other district spent a week or two on the entire war and it's causes. Those kids couldn't tell you the significance of Gettysburg and didn't have a clue who Jefferson Davis was.