"Of "Manly Valor" and "German Honor": Nation, War,...." Topic

and Masculinity in the Age of the Prussian Uprising against Napoleon

Of possible interest?

link

Amicalement
Armand

It should also be noted that conscription had to be forced in some areas of Prussia, 'manly valor' or not.

yes those songs are very interesting, clearly expressing to get rid of the tyranny of Boney and to liberate Germany from the occupation.

Of course, other German states could sing similar songs as the Prussians ran over them on the way to unification. I would imagine that Saxons, Hessians, and a few others would view the Prussians as occupiers as well.

In practical terms, however, I think Napoleon should have stopped with Westphalia, which was sufficient as a Rhine border. Too much is never a good idea--"outside one's sphere of influence," I believe, usually doesn't end well.

such songs came later of 1866 – fashion, Germany was unified in the hate against Boney.
Hessen Kassel was reestablished when the artificial kingdom of Westphalia was destroyed, Hannover also – Saxony suffered badly but still continued to exist.

The idea that Germany was unified in hate against Napoleon is allied propaganda. Austria believed that idea in 1809 and were greatly disappointed when it turned out to be false.

The states that joined the Confederation of the Rhine in 1806 did so because they did not want to be ingested by either Austria or Prussia.

And the war of liberation in 1813 was nothing more than Prussia's attempt to 'liberate' as much of Germany as they possibly could.

And in the Austro-Prussian War of 1866 the states that sided with Austria and took the field did so because they did not want to be part of Prussia. And that included Bavaria, Wurttemberg, Saxony, Baden, Hesse-Darmstadt, and Hanover.

Bavaria, Wurttemberg, Saxony, Baden, and Hesse-Darmstadt were among the original states of the old Confederation of the Rhine.

As I recall, Bismarck had to trick BWB into joining the German Empire, hence the Franco=Prussian War. Otherwise, they were having no part of the Prussians.

Frenco Prussian war, another anglo centric failure, it should be called German Franco war, Austria was the only German state not taking part – but this was already decided in 1866.

It should also be noted that conscription had to be forced in some areas of Prussia, 'manly valor' or not.

It's interesting the defence of Boney always starts with an attack on his enemies. So we have "conscripted Germans," Russian pheasants (or should that be peasants, like Sellars and Yeatman I can never tell the difference) and their 'barbarian' cossak horde, together with the plodding Austrians all three of these Allies under uniformly poor leadership and kept in field by "British gold".

So how is it with say 14 months of the Befreiungskriege, and loosing so many battles to the genius of Napoleon, how is it that these same lackeys were watering their horses in the Seine and the sound of their cannon could be heard in Montmartre?

Tango, my dear cousin, here are some of the songs of the Befreiungskriege:

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Oops, I forgot probably the most important march to come out of this period: Pariser Einzugsmarsch (The Entry into Paris), yes it dates from 1814, not 1870, even if von Moltke got there is less time, Paris held out longer the next time around.

YouTube link

French conscription caused tenth of thousands deserters and it had to be enforced with much much more authority and punishment than for the Prussian side.

Von Winterfeldt, now I just have to ask where the factual support for your comment regarding French versus Prussian conscription originates. I'm not saying it isn't true, in whole or in part, but I would appreciate some specific corroboration.

Tableau des désertions en l'an XIII (1805)

for example

3e de ligne – 692 recruited – 242 deserted
39e de ligne – 159 recruited – 92 deserted
9e cuirassiers – 53 recruited – 24 deserted
12e chasseurs à cheval – 18 recruited – 11 deserted

there were others of course like

1 er chasseurs à cheval – 27 recruited – 0 deserted
20e dragons – 225 recruited – 9 deserted

on the high

24e léger – 319 recruited – 282 deserted

well this was in the good days.

Can you do the same for the Prussians?

Perhaps the question might be 'will you do the same for the Prussians?'

The plain facts are that few Prussians really wanted to volunteer to get shot at by the French.

Theodor Korner, a poet who was in Lutzow's Free Corps, and who was killed in action, wrote regarding Prussian draft dodgers:

'Fie on thee boy, disguised with curls…'

The average Prussian subject to conscription was not enthusiastic to get shot at and there were many desertions.

The Life of Korner, written by his father:

file:///C:/Users/Owner/Pictures/Jena/Korner.pdf

for the Prussians – best person would be to ask Oliver Schmidt.

In case I don't deny – that Prussians deserted but I find it completely irrelevant in the context – by they way there exist critical songs as well, for those who can read German, but that wouldn't be the topic of the book.

Hagemann's work is very good. For a comparative approach read Thomas Hippler's study on conscription in Prussia and France during this period g.co/kgs/DFKDbE