"Do ancient mosaics depict Alexander's elephants?" Topic
8 Posts
All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.
Please don't make fun of others' membernames.
For more information, see the TMP FAQ.
Back to the Ancients Discussion Message Board
Areas of InterestAncients
Featured Hobby News Article
Featured Link
Top-Rated Ruleset
Featured Showcase ArticleBeowulf paints the prototypes for the Eureka Amazon Army.
Featured Workbench ArticleLaconia Hobbies shows us how it is done.
Featured Profile ArticleGet these inexpensive dinos while you can.
|
Editor in Chief Bill | 16 May 2019 8:47 p.m. PST |
…Some things about the "Elephant Panel" are clear. The bottom section, or register, reflects the aftermath of a bloody battle; the middle register shows Jewish priestly figures in a classical arcade; the same figures stand in the upper register, swords at the ready, opposite Greek troops accompanied by battle elephants. At the center is an encounter between a priestly figure and a military leader, who seems to be presenting a bull, perhaps to be sacrificed… link |
Dn Jackson | 16 May 2019 10:46 p.m. PST |
I don't know if it does or not, but thanks for posting this. I found it very interesting. |
BigRedBat | 17 May 2019 3:08 a.m. PST |
That's a lovely mosiac. Are those shields strapped to the sides of the elephants? |
BillyNM | 17 May 2019 7:22 a.m. PST |
My money would be on them being Seleucid elephants. |
Shagnasty | 17 May 2019 1:47 p.m. PST |
I'd go with the Seleucid idea. A t G was notorious for being smooth-shaven and he got his elephant after passing through Judea. |
JJartist | 17 May 2019 4:02 p.m. PST |
Seems a scene from later than AtG. Either Maccabean or later. |
Parzival | 17 May 2019 4:06 p.m. PST |
Well, it's not by any means a contemporary piece with AtG, so I wouldn't expect historical accuracy for a much earlier period in a mosaic. (The 5th Century equivalent of "Wrong Tank Syndrome.") But I still tend to agree with you that it's not Alexander. Nor is it based on a contemporary ruler, as the contemporary images I found of Byzantine emperors of that period (busts, coins, etc.) are depicted as clean shaven. So it's someone who would have been thought to have a beard. (Which also rules out most of the Seleucids, too, from what I can tell. The few depicted with beards don't seem to be much in conflict with Jews, at least not in away that would be significant some 6 centuries later. Bit like a modern English church having art of a 14th century battle in Scotland: no longer that big of a deal.) I'm more given to the Maccabees interpretation (there seems to be a bit of a confrontation going on), or an interpretation of a conflict between a prophet/priest and one of the "bad" kings, as suggested by the Samuel vs. Saul interpretation (though I don't recall that being a situation of the priests drawing swords against the king, so I doubt that particular story is intended). Interestingly, it was common practice for artists to depict past battles and armies in the contemporary weapons, armor and troop types of their day. The Sassanid Persians of the era used war elephants (and had bearded kings, too). I'm not aware of the Byzantines using elephants, but I'm hardly an expert (I mostly just googled a lot of this…) So perhaps the army depicted is supposed to foreign or exotic, and not necessarily a reference to any actual past use of elephants. (Love the big googly eyes on ‘em!) |
williamb | 17 May 2019 4:13 p.m. PST |
Most likely Maccabean. There is a description of a battle against the Seleucids where each elephant was accompanied by infantry in mail armor. Also, Alexander did not have a beard. There was a discussion about this panel on the Society of Ancients forums a while back. |
|