Uesugi Kenshin  | 16 May 2019 2:53 p.m. PST |
So aside from the English dismounted men at arms, would the English force be composed of Bill & Bow (similar to the Wars of the Roses) or just bow armed troops similar to most 100 Years War armies? |
| 22ndFoot | 17 May 2019 6:18 a.m. PST |
1424 isn't very long after Agincourt so I'd go with an army for that period. Also, the large number of Scots present were, I believe, mostly men at arms and not the spearmen we usually think of for Scots armies of the period. |
| Uesugi Kenshin | 17 May 2019 8:26 a.m. PST |
Thanks 22nd. I spoke to Alan of the Perry Bros. He was of the opinion that the Bill units wouldn't start til about the 1430s. As to the Scots, that's a tough question too. I agree they should be primarily MAA and bow but making them all dismounted MAA and bow seems like a lot of Men at Arms for the Scots. |
| 22ndFoot | 17 May 2019 9:10 a.m. PST |
Uesugi, I think Alan is quite right. A quick sweep of Google suggests 2,500 MAA and 4,000 archers for the Scots in the early 1420s. Most accounts place the Scots MAA in the single central battle with the French. Douglas's pre-battle declaration that the Scots would neither give nor ask for quarter has to be one of the biggest bits of hubris of the whole war. I really need to get a copy of Verneuil 1424: The Second Agincourt: The Battle of the Three Kingdoms by Richard Wadge. It's been on my wishlist for a couple of years but the family never seem to get the hint. I'll take a look at Sumption and Burne over the weekend to see if either sheds any light. Jon |
| Uesugi Kenshin | 17 May 2019 10:10 a.m. PST |
Thanks 22nd, the 4,000 archers to 2,000 MAA makes more sense to me. I was thinking you were suggesting the opposite at first. Of course that would deny me the fun of painting 2,000 worth of Scots Spear! I've got "2nd Agincourt" up next on my reading list as soon as I finish a Wotr book I'm reading. Cheers. |
| uglyfatbloke | 19 May 2019 5:12 a.m. PST |
A Scottish king might be able to raise 1000 MAA at a pinch, but we should think in terms of the Scots in France being mostly well-equipped spearmen and archers. |
| Uesugi Kenshin | 19 May 2019 7:56 p.m. PST |
Spears make the Scots more interesting to paint up. That's why I posted the OP as well. I was hoping to get some English Bills instead of all bows. It still makes for an interesting game either way. |
| Griefbringer | 21 May 2019 1:18 a.m. PST |
I really need to get a copy of Verneuil 1424: The Second Agincourt: The Battle of the Three Kingdoms by Richard Wadge It is a good book, but do not expect to find particularly detailed information on the composition of the various contingents present in the battle. |
| Thomas Thomas | 22 May 2019 1:07 p.m. PST |
Wadge's book is very good but Sumption has not yet reached this battle. Juliet Barker's book, Conquest, does cover the battle. I did a version for Great Battles for DBA prior to having read Wadge's book but our interpretations are pretty similar (after all we were reading the same primary sources). I've done an up dated version for A Game of Knights & Knaves. The Scots were men at arms and more importantly archers. Thomas J. Thomas
Fame & Glory Games |
