"Rules that just work and are fun to play" Topic

I have to disagree that a lot of the choices listed here are easy to pick up.

I can't dispute anyone's idea of fun or feel for the period, and I'm not arguing that hard = bad. Most of my favorite rules sets take some practice to play without help – CY6, the GQ3 family, the F&F family, the DBx family, etc.

No mistake, I consider a great many of the rules listed in this thread to be classic designs with vast replay value, I just think too many of them still see players pestering the GM or consulting the rulebook after multiple plays, and that should disqualify them as "easy to pick up".

- Ix

+1 Yellow Admiral

There's rules on the listings that still aren't played consistently in our parts here, and by guys that have been playing them for years. One set, and no, I'm not going to name names, is so poorly edited it always causes frustration at the table.

My theory of rules usefulness nowadays, is if a rule set can't be taught and played in a 'reasonable amount of time', and without constantly making mistakes with it, then who actually benefits from those rules (as the results always end up getting an * added because something gets botched during each game).

Much of the allure (IMO) about rules favorites is the fascination with puzzle-solving, and also not wanting to throw away the investment of time put forward to learn some game systems. On top of that, and not so much anymore, but some rule systems required specific/peculiar figure mounting arrangements – and once someone "invested" in that, their collections were almost held captive to that particular rule set.

OK, rant off here – but I appreciate Yellow Admiral opening up the opportunity to say that the OP's "easy to pick up" requirement is probably not so easy to bring about.

There is a difference potentially between fast play and quick to learn. DBM when learnt is very fast to enact. Combat resolution and "morale" are very fast to resolve. However its not fast (which is a good thing) in that it demands the general has a plan that needs enacting over a number of bounds. Simply reacting to the enemy will allow the enemy to out maneuver the opposition.

Any game that can be mastered in a evening to me is not worth playing. You can learn the moves of chess in an evening you may never learn to play it well.

@UshCha

I dont think it's just easy to learn or use that counts. A lot of rules are badly written and poorly play-tested and sometimes this later part is only discovered after a lot of effort is expended trying them out.

I would imagine most gamers just want to game but it does sometimes seem like there is a never ending search for the perfect rules set. It could be that gamers are never satisfied but it must also be true that rule sets are often inadequate.

@MiniPigs – right-on Brother!

Also, there's that constant search for the next rule's "take" on a period too (so gamer's looking is not always brought on by dissatisfaction, but a search for the "new").

Actually, I think much of the "new" should come from newer scenario designs, or doing campaigns with your much-used, fav. ruleset. But, the industry is also trying to get us to buy into the new too, and to a degree we will be following their lead.

I organize a multi-games day at a local hobby shop each month, and I must be cognizant that the shop measures giving us their prime real estate for our games, while judging if our historicals/wargaming "buzz" brings anything to them in return.

So trying the new is not always a bad thing for the health of clubs, groups, or obviously the industry. But, on top of this, being able to teach a new game system in a public setting (at shops & cons), and to have a game played well enough, without getting too many glazed-eye looks at the table is important to our group's objectives.

I'd rather have players (especially new prospects) be able to play a simpler game system very well, than to have them muddle through a complex, "more realistic" set of rules, and risk turning them off by the experience (I won't inflict newbies to that experience if at all possible).

Someone mentioned in the first page of this thread the Commands & Colors series as games that could be good matches for your list here MiniPigs.

Our local area has recognized the C&C body of games, done in 3D as a good organizing series to present at the shops periodically. They pull in board gamers, historical gamers, and easily new gamers.

TMP link

Most of the guys you'll see in the linked thread above have many decades of wargaming behind them, some with 50+ years. They still can have a good time playing elegant, simpler-to-play games too. We've also got two new faces in that crowd! Do we still "grog" at times too, yes, and there's still the basement group scene going on in the area, but you know, most of us met out at the shops or cons, and these home gatherings exist primarily because some guy or group reached out their hand and said "c'mon and join us".

@FlyXwire

I will check out the Commands & Colors. I never heard of them and so if they were mentioned, wouldve gone over my head.

Nice tables at your games. What brands of mats do you use? What's all the rocketship stuff?

The fur and vinyl mats are my custom-made work (some I've had printed up for guys' C&C 3D kits in the area) – except for the new C&C game Red Alert with all those rocketship minis – that game comes with it's own mat (so it's pretty 3D out of the box).

All these games were created by the designer Richard Borg. He started with Battle Cry (ACW), went to WW2 – Memoir '44, Medievals/Fantasy – Battle Lore, Ancients, Napoleonics, WWI – The Great War, recently for the AWI, etc., and another will be coming out soon for the early Medieval period. They're boardgame designs that generally use unit blocks, or plastic troops for the game pieces, and with hex board overlays for terrain. All these can be bumped up to 3D terrain, or used with traditional wargaming minis. They're card-driven/hand management systems for tactical choices/fog of war – very fun, easy to learn, and easy to replay so you can get some revenge in a 2nd or 3rd playing in an afternoon if the cards didn't come your way that first game! ;)

Richard Borg is/was a miniatures gamer too, who landed upon the idea of combining hex-board gaming with miniature pieces, and having variable terrain pieces so allowing a single game board to serve for creating many battle scenarios on (not to mention his unique, sector-based card-activation mechanics). See his bio page on Board Game Geek, and the pictures of his group/play-testing his systems – they're often doing so with wargame miniatures, and as miniatures games!

link

Check out BGG here for the roster of some of these Commands and Colors games (all using similar game mechanics, which when learning one makes learning another easier) – the choices and implementation may be a bit overwhelming too -

link

link

link

link

Here's Red Alert -

link

Fistful of Lead.

AK47 original.

@FlyXwire

It's intriguing, the Command & Colors business but there's a lot to learn to even know if you want to try it out…oh la la!

Before I invest too much time researching it, are the cards available without the rest of the game?

I'm sure it'll become very clear before too long but at this moment it's like someone threw a dozen baseballs at me at the same time.

It's a good thing I like baseball

:)))

No, the order/activation command cards are part of each boxed set – they're often period-specific (or themed) for that particular game's period (special unit attributes sometimes, period tactics ---- sharpshooter card, etc.), but, the rules themselves are often available free for the download – as PDFs. You'll often find these linked in the "Files" section of each game on BGG, or, more often that not, they're downloadable from each publisher's website.

So you can take a swing and not get charged with a strike, before seeing the pitch first.

This is one of the assets of their board game legacy, as often today, board gaming publishers want players to check out the rules first (but yes, in order to get the complete package sold if a gamer wants to subsequently play the game).

Btw, there's a number of game mat manufacturers that make "C&C" hex mats so gamers can do their own 3D game conversions on larger grid boards now.

Lets see if this works – here's the link to the C&C Napoleonics game rules sold by GMT (it's one of the more "involved" iterations of the C&C system – lots more unit types and attendant rule mechanisms for the Nappy system, as compared to a simpler game like Battle Cry) -

PDF link

(the various Napoleonics-version command card types are shown at the back of the ruleset above)

Scenario book for the above -

PDF link

The C&C system is certainly a well-sorted and easy system to play, and can make for very fun games. Also, I've yet to play a C&C game of any period that wasn't a tense nail-biter right to the end.

I know you can buy most of the individual components for Memoir '44 on eBay, not sure about the others.

One group I play with plays a lot of the historical C&C system games – ancients, Napoleonic, AWI, ACW, Memoir '44, even a WWI version (playtest only). They are fun and easy to learn games, but I have two problems with the system:

1. The cards make too many of the decisions for you.
   
2. Memoir '44 was released as a seemingly endless stream of supplements, and it can be really hard to find a particular rule. There is no "master" rulebook (yet).

Regarding that first point, I think the system would improve a hundredfold if you ignore the sector specification on the activation cards, and let the player using the card decide which sector to play it on. Strictly my opinion, not shared by my group, so I haven't playtested it.

FWIW, I think that second point also makes Memoir '44 violate the OP of this thread – it takes at least a full game to get all the special rules down pat.

It turns out it's also hard to switch C&C family games, because the variations between period systems can be very confusing. My first question when joining any C&C game is, "Is this a battle back game?" Of course that doesn't make any individual C&C system "hard" to learn. They're all pretty easy to pick up.

- Ix

Very valid – and you can get into the C&C weeds as deep as one cares too – lots of mod rules and variants out there, done some of those myself, and sounds like your group does too.

On that note, the system is very mod-able.

On the card options, I totally agree too, and that's sort of the "functionality" of the whole series – battle plans and evolution are not open-ended, they're limited [by the card-drawn options].

This makes the game well-suited for quick-starting – there's no "what-do-we-do" pre-game phase – the battle plan is presented before the player(s) right there in their card hands (now how best do they manage those opportunities).

I find having such a battle plan presented to players as often an encouragement to play, rather than there being this often daunting "silence" of how they might conceptualize organizing a battle's strategy. This impediment to a player (or as we often play our games as teams) to coalescing enough where a coherent strategy is actually discussed pre-game, is presented in the unfolding command cards being drawn in C&C games. So this is another of the quick-to-play mechanisms of the system. I find this perfect for shop & con gaming, where players who might not even know themselves don't have to dicker out a game strategy between strangers, but can certainly discuss card options being presented to them as they play the game.

Interestingly, responding to card options being drawn might be more variable in its game outcome, than what we often see on miniature tabletops for "strategy & tactics", like "I guess I'll sit down here at the table, and push forward straight ahead the troops in front of me" ad nauseam.

Hey! Thanks for those links.

Say, I was admiring your handiwork here:

TMP link

How does the vinyl material (To the extent that you might know) compare with these products which I was considering:

link

Or, the High Quality rubber sea mat below:

link

Also, I never considered cruel seas, is that still enjoyable for you?

Honestly, I was thinking about Limeys and Slimeys with some of These: link

MP, the mats I texture, or make as modified textures to be printed on advertising banner material aren't "commercially viable". That is, for anyone in my group who wants one that I've done, can get one at cost (to make it affordable). As I'm not in business to sell mats, that works for me too – just helping friends get mats to put on their games with (often with the stipulation if I do this for them, that they put games on at my monthly events). ;)

I'd just be guessing for you, but a nice-looking sea mat made from mouse-material is a good choice – mouse material with its weight lays so flat, and sometimes the material's imprinted texture provides a little "sheen" but diffuses reflection. My vinyl-printed mats, although "non-reflective", still reflect when taking pictures of the action on them with a camera flash.

On Cruel Seas – it's been a surprise hoot for me, and a hit among our group (and I've not been a fan of naval wargaming), but, Cruel Seas/coastal naval gaming has been something different – it's like aerial dogfighting, and with the option of tying in ground forces, and/or ground installations, and actual aerial strikes vs. the coastal craft (multi-faceted possibilities). The Cruel Seas rules are fun too. Maybe I haven't been that critical of them because I didn't expect much because it was 'naval', but it's been a big surprise to me (although a friend has been making good mods to them). He also presents Limeys & Slimeys games, and has for a long time, so maybe I can get him to chime in on them (perhaps in another thread you might host – concerning opinions on those rules)?

Oh, I understand completely.

I think I might get that tiny wargames rubber sea mat.

Do you have any comments on the virtues of a darker, lighter, greener ot bluer hued sea mat?

Their dark blue mats looks great (and great for night-time coastal action specifically)!

Tiny Mats often contracts with Ivan of Wargame Print, who I've used for his downloadable texture files. You would be in fine fashion if those TM sea mats use Ivan's texturing too.

For me, Chain of Command is one of the best tabletop wargames I've ever played. It is very simple conceptually, but the actual game-play that arises from it is very nuanced. And in terms of really capturing the period (WW2), they really nail it. It is also fantastic for campaign play, and the "At The Sharp End" supplement adds a ton of depth at the cost of very little rules overhead.

I'm surprised no one's mentioned the original AK47 rules from Peter Pig which are sill available in PDF form.

See Boggler's post above.

@blank frank

Those Peter Pig AK47 Rules have a nice pregame system but the actual gaming rules themselves are a bit tedious.

"Sons of Liberty"

link

For Classical Ancients, I highly recommend Age of Hannibal

link

a mile above all others when it comes to work well, fun to play and easy to pick up: 1-48TACTIC

everything else is just sluggish and boring by comparison… :)

it's a very fast-paced skirmish scale WWII game, which uses an innovative system based on stat cards and tokens to produce a brutally realistic simulation without tables, accounting, etc…
The rules are available for free, including some cards and all tokens needed… there is also some awesome how to play video, check them out: YouTube link

1-48tactic.com

The Sword & The Flame

firefly without any off board batteries.

Der Alts Fritz's SYW rules and Fife and Drum rules.

a mile above all others when it comes to work well, fun to play and easy to pick up: 1-48TACTIC

Oh dear, spamming every discussion with a plug for your own game, because spamming is exactly what this is. Not only poor internet etiquette but breaking one of the cardinal rules of online marketing.

Perhaps you should try attending gaming conventions. You could walk up to people who are playing WWII games, stand right in front of them and shout very loudly in their face "everything else is just sluggish and boring by comparison". It's the same as what you are doing here and will be just as effective.

For ww2 skrimish -- Rate of Fire

Mini pigs, you should tell us what era you have figures for or plan to get figures for.

Some have stated 'The Sword and the Flame' and that's been around for decades and has a very loyal and enthusiastic following but is Victorian and Edwardian in era.

Lord of the Rings battle game is also very good but if you are not into medieval or fantasy that's not the best suggestion.

To be fair 1/72 (20mm) figures are the least expensive for these eras and you can get a box of 40 to 50 for the price of just a few metal 28mm figures.

Interestingly, responding to card options being drawn might be more variable in its game outcome, than what we often see on miniature tabletops for "strategy & tactics", like "I guess I'll sit down here at the table, and push forward straight ahead the troops in front of me" ad nauseam.

FlyXwire- that is the absolute most intelligent thing I have EVER seen on a TMP forum in quite some time.

Ancient- CCancients! Punic wars miniatures specifically "sword an spear"
DA-Medieval- SAGA, Lion Rampant~ because I like to get my hands dirty.
Pike and Shot- juries out, thinking this war w/o an enemy for ECW/TYW
18th century- Maurice, and for king or Empress
Napoleonic- CCnapoleonics, Shako 1st, peninsula war, and 1807 campaign
19th century- Rank and File Crimean War, TSATF (of course!) Sudan
WW1,WW2- ???? I really want to use PBI , but I can't get past the rule reading, and yes I have watched the videos.
I refuse to do anything later than January 1945, after that it was just a body count and Korea is out, my dads mind was badly damaged by it, 3/7 marines. Everything after is a no go for me. Too creepy- too many deployments.

@wmyers

I plan to have armies for:

40mm ACW

40mm AWI

40mm Napoleonic-Peninsular

Sort of an Italian Wars renaissance collection in 28mm

WW2 Late War western Europe 1/72nd scale

28mm NWF 1890s (And I do use TSATF)

15mm GNW

28mm Spanish American War/Boxer Rebellion (I dont have rules for SAW but have been considering TVAG's Rough Riders?)

20mm Modern Africa Skirmish

28mm Skirmish WW2 and a little Weird War

Maybe some Egyptian/Assyrian chariot stuff

I have rules for most of these periods but wanted to see if I were missing anything good. I rely of course on everyone else's collective experiences and recommendations.

The question poses the essential problem of what counts as a "fun" game (I think we can all agree we want it to be as playable as possible so that aspect is a universal positive). The problem arises when a game is "simplistic" to the extent it doesn't represent the period well or is so dominated by random events as to make the player little more than a random number generator. Hence its not "fun" if you like the period or like doing something else than watching masses of d6s bounce or waiting around helplessly for your special card to at last be drawn.

So we must follow Eisenstein's principle: the system should be as simple as possible but no simpler.

For Medieval: any of the DBX family I of course prefer A Game of Knights & Knaves (OK shameless plug).

Skirmish pre-1800: Blood & Plunder

ACW: simplified Johnny Reb (great system that needs to be modernized).

Skirmish post 1850: Wild West Exodus (yeah I knows its steam punk but just leave that stuff out)

WWI & WWII: Combat Command (oh another shameless plug)

Have had a fantastic time playing all of these with learning curves that are well worth the effort.

Thomas J. Thomas
Fame & Glory Games