"How many flags in Old Guard regiments?" Topic

Hi guys! I am forming old guard grenadiers from Victrix figures. There are 4 flag bearers. They are too many for the guard grenadiers regiments, aren't they? I remember that the eagle flag was for the 1st btn, and the fanion, instead of the eagle, were for the 2nd btn. Am I right? If so, what the fanion looks like? And is there only one fanion in a btn? Are there any fanions in the 1st btn? Thank you all!

In general terms:

1804-1808: 1 eagle and flag per battalion
1808-1814: 1 eagle and flag per regiment (with 1st battalion, fanions for the rest)
1815: 1 Eagle and flag each for the grenadiers and chasseurs (with the !st grenadiers and 1st chasseurs, fanions for the rest).

Some discussion here:

TMP link

and here:

TMP link

I have the book: 'French Infantry Flags. from 1786 to the end of the first empire' by Ludovic Letrun. It's crammed full of illustrations of hundeds of flags from almost every regiment and includes fanions together with a short description of each.

link

There is also this little known Gloucestershire Regiment recorded drawing of a fanion of the 45th Ligne taken at Waterloo by the 28th.

Paul :)

The distribution of eagles was directly related to the changes in organization undergone by the army. For example, the reason that the 2nd Bn eagles were withdrawn in 1808 was that the regimental organization had changed from 2 to 3 Bns. the original issue of eagles was two to a regiment – one for each Bn. A 3rd Bn. screwed up that distribution, and rather than cast additional eagles, the emperor decided to change to one eagle per regiment, as part of the regimental staff. It was not assigned to the 1st Bn, which explains why we see 1st Bn fannons.

In the Old Guard Infantry, the 1804 distribution was the same as line – one eagle per Bn. But there was only one regiment of grenadiers and one regiment of Chasseurs, each of 2 Bns. When a second regiment of each was added in 1806, the second Bn eagles were given to the second regiments, and each regiment had one eagle. The second regiments were disbanded in 1809, then reformed in 1810, and again disbanded in 1811 and reformed in 1811. By the time 1812 came around, with all the middle and young guard regiments, it was decided that the grenadier CORPS would carry a single (model 1812) flag and eagle, the individual regiments and Bns carrying fannons. Likewise with the Chasseur CORPS. So from 1812 on there were only two infantry eagles in the entire guard corps.

I believe that the Guard infantry received new FLAGS just before 1812, but they were not the fancy model 1812 tricolors. They were similar to the original model 1804, but instead of the eagle pictured in the center, they had similar salutations as the line flags. And of course they were new. Maybe that was the point, because the original 1804 flags were just one layer of silk with painted on decorations and text. By 1812 they must have looked pretty ragged!

very interesting, it could be the colour of the second battalion, not carrying an eagle.