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"Sherman and Lee on Victory Day parade in Murmansk" Topic


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World War Two on the Land

772 hits since 13 May 2019
©1994-2019 Bill Armintrout
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Barin113 May 2019 10:05 a.m. PST

two tanks recovered from WWII Lend-Lease transport are back in service.

YouTube link

More on the story:

link

seeing their shape after recovery, it is a great acomplishment. One of them can even shoot dummy rounds now ;)

Frederick Supporting Member of TMP13 May 2019 10:45 a.m. PST

Well, I am impressed

Good American manufacture and Russian know-how – funny to see tanks running that were made when my dad was still a kid!

Garde de Paris Supporting Member of TMP13 May 2019 11:19 a.m. PST

One closest to the camera appears to be an M3 Grant with an unusually long gun in the body – 75mm – with a muzzle counterweight. Might be wrong? The Russians called the Grant's and Lee's "coffins for 7 brothers!"

The other appears to be am M4 Sherman, very wide tracks, horizontal volute suspension system, 75 mm gun – very late WWII US model – "easy eight?" Doubt the would have been on the same ship – they are from both "ends" of the war.

GdeP

Lion in the Stars13 May 2019 1:41 p.m. PST

Congratulations to the restorers!

Jeffers13 May 2019 3:03 p.m. PST

I think it's a Lee turret minus the MG. M3A5?

Regardless of the type, it's fab!

Legion 413 May 2019 3:08 p.m. PST

thumbs up

Mark 113 May 2019 4:06 p.m. PST

The Lee appears to be an M3A4.

Visual indicators are:
- Riveted hull
- No side doors on hull
- The commander's cupola is present and visible if you look carefully, although there is an added MG on top of the turret (a bit of an oddity).

The barrel muzzle counter-weight was used to balance the guns in the trunions on short-barreled 75mm guns (the M2). It is indeed a bit of an oddity to see it on a longer-barreled M3 75mm gun. By the time the M3A4 was in production I don't even think they were still building them with M2 guns, but I could be wrong on this point. My guess is that the they may have added a muzzle weight they found in inventory (they were removable) just for visual effect, either as part of the restoration or just for the parade.

This was an extended hull version (as the Sherman M4A4) with the Chrysler Multi-Bank engine, built for lend-lease contracts.

My understanding is that the Russians called the M3 the Grant in their service, even though almost all of the M3s they received were built with the American version of the turret, which is the common-use determinant that this tank is a Lee. But in either case they usually just called them M3 Mediums, as the Americans did, as "Grant" and "Lee" would probably have been meaningless to a Russian soldier.

And as has been suggested, the M3 was not exactly beloved by their Russian crews. Bad enough that the US crews had to live at the end of a 4-6 month supply line … the Russians were actually at the end of about a 9 month supply line from US factories.

The Sherman appears to be an M4A2 76 (w) HVSS, otherwise known as an M4A2E8. There is only a fleeting view of the rear hull as it goes by. My conclusion is based as much on my knowledge that the Russians preferred (and received) primarily the M4A2 version as much as anything else.

It is great to see them rolling along, though. Isn't it?

-Mark
(aka: Mk 1)

Cuprum13 May 2019 8:46 p.m. PST

The Russians called the Grant's and Lee's "coffins for 7 brothers!"

Not exactly: "The mass grave for seven (man)"
Mass grave in the literal translation of the word "grave brothers."

Jeffers13 May 2019 10:58 p.m. PST

Yep, it does have the MG turret. Just as well I'm getting new specs next week.

Last time I saw a Grant it was a battered and rusting target hulk someone had dragged into the Chalke Valley History Festival. I'm always surprised how small they are in real life; I expect something with a seven man crew to be huge!

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