"Westphalian light horse question" Topic

Hi guys

I'm currently converting a unit of 15mm Westphalian light horse, does anyone know if they had carbines? I can't see any in the ref pics I have seen.

I don't have a definitive answer, but if they follow the French pattern, there would have been a limited number in the squadron for temporary issue to those doing sentry duty, etc.

OK, so I shall remove about a third.

I have never heard of such a practice. I know that in the 1813 campaign, some to all French Dragoon regiments gave up their musketoons to supply weapons to the infantry.

Hussars and Light Horse all had carbines, as they often skirmished on horse and dismounted against enemy skirmishers.

GdeP

So would Westphalian light horse have carbines in 1809-10 do you think?

So far, it sounds like no one really would know for sure.

I would certainly NOT carve away a perfectly good carbine from any figure – unless it is absolutely wrong.

As an example, the Old Glory 15 Cuirassiers du Roi of the 7YW have a musket along the side as would Napoleonic Dragoons, which is totally WRONG. If anyone challenges me, I say they are carrying them as extras for the infantry, fine fellows as they are!

Then again, back in the 1970's when Stadden did NOT make 30mm French Chasseurs a cheval of the line, I converted an Empress Dragoon to one, using the middle part of the musket to cut away the butt, add a wire for the barrel, and then insert a carbine butt into the figure behind the elbow. Lots of other carving necessary, and the recast came out too thin. My starving Chasseurs in Spain!

GdeP

yes, well the answers doesn't seem to be obvious, so maybe they will keep their carbines.

Keep the carbines. Never heard tell of French or French-allied light cavalry who weren't at least supposed to have them, and I remember them from the Knoetel plates. If you wanted to be absolutely sure, you'd have to do inspection reports, inventories and such, and frankly it doesn't sound worth the trouble. If they didn't have them in Westphalia, it's a pretty good bet they'd at least have been issued them when they were sent to Spain.

Dan,

The 1st Regiment of Light Horse were issued with model 1777 light cavalry carbines when sent to Spain. So they certainly had them. I don't think they received lances.

Since the 2nd was formed from the Depot Squadron of the 1st Regiment (and a Hussar regiment, the 2nd if I recall correctly, who had also been issued the m. 1777 carbine) they likely had carbines too. I don't think it is clear if all of the 2nd Chevauxleger had lances or only the first rank.

Hope this helps.

Excellent, thank you all, keeping the carbines, have already issue them lances.

French practice for Lancers was front rank: Lance but no carbine; rear rank: carbine but no lance. Thereby providing 50% Carbines for skirmishing and picquet duty, but not encumbring the lancers with a carbine stock under their lance arm.

My Belgian Carabiniers created a dilemma. The Perry metal figures come with a firearm…they would…hence their name!

But many suggestions that such were rarely carried on the battlefield, by most cavalry…as an unnecessary encumbrance. So my plastic conversions will do without.

Your conversion work is great. I do love a good head swap and some Greenstuff. Takes more imagination

Just finished them, added swords lances and bedrolls, will take some more pics before I undercoat.

Iirc, Westphalian cavalry in the Peninsula were famous for their collecting of inordinately large number of pistols.

Page 53 on weaponary in "Westphalische Militar" by Markus Gartner & Edmund Wagner says the cavalry were issued with 2 cavalry pistols (model AN IX – ANXIII) and a carbine (model AN IX – ANXIII). This section is silent on the lance, but page 46 on the Chevaulegers says the Dekret (vom 3. 10) authorised the lance like for the Guard. But no mention of the distribution

Ok, excellent,thanks