"Should "old crusty gamer types" get a pass?" Topic

People send me a lot of free, unsolicited advice.

Today, I'm being told that certain "old, crusty gamer types" should get a pass over the things they say. One person even rose to some guy's defense, while admitting the guy was a complete jerk (not the exact language he used, but I'm avoid the profanity). I've been told that I should overlook someone's bad behavior "because they make good figures."

So when people come onto the forum which I operate, and accuse me of being a liar, of manipulating something, of sinister conspiracies, that I hate some group or am protecting somebody they hate… they tell me that I'm over-reacting if I take away someone's posting privileges. I'm the one to blame if I don't overlook bad behavior. If I don't "forgive" them, I'm the bad guy.

Here's what experience tells me: If I give someone a second chance, and I've done that a lot, if they are sincere about making changes in their behavior, then they usually go on to have happy forum lives and never cause trouble again.

However, when I give a second (and a third, and a fourth) chance to some of these people, they just see it as weakness, and they go on to break the rules again while protesting that they never really promised to change anything.

The other thing I'm getting sick about are these stupid forum vendettas. Some people have gotten the idea somehow that they "own" certain boards, and that certain people shouldn't be allowed to post there. Then they get angrier and angrier when their designated enemy posts without their permission, but they refused to Stifle or Ignore that person because it's somehow against their principles. How childish can you be! And no, I'm not going to go around punishing people on the forums because you don't approve of them! If they break forum rules, that's one thing; but some people get so fixated on "enemies" that they imagine forum infractions where none exist.

So to repeat what I've said before, as I learned years ago on TMP, you can't let people kick you around or they get used to it. Sometimes, respect needs to be demanded.

Being an "old crusty gamer type" is no excuse.

No pass for old (grumpy) men.

I agree with what you are saying in principle, Bill. But the way you are saying it makes you sound like you're a crusty old gamer complaining about crusty old gamers. ;-)

No. If the rules for the forum are really rules they should apply to everyone.

Absolutely not. We crusty old gamers types should be setting the example.

Everybody should play be the same set of rules.

Though my dictionary uses the terms "Respect" and Consideration" to define each other, I don't think that is correct. Consideration is something everyone in the community owes each other, as an element of subscribing to the community. A person loses the right to expect that, when they behave inappropriately, thus violating the "terms" of belonging to the community. Respect is something that is earned, based on one's behavior. Respect is only deserved as a function of having proven one's character.

However you deal with each conflict as it arises, it is imperative that you be honest with yourself in an effort to be just in the resolution of the conflict. Otherwise, you risk losing the respect of others here who are respectable.

But the way you are saying it makes you sound like you're a crusty old gamer complaining about crusty old gamers. ;-)

You want to know what else gets my goat, after all these years?

These people with their comments about how "sad" it is that some people are no longer on TMP. Usually implying that TMP is just too mean toward certain misunderstood gamers.

What a crock of nonsense. How many of these cases involve grown men acting like 12-year-olds on the forum, getting into stupid rivalries, getting themselves worked up until finally they break the forum rules – which they almost never take personal responsibility for! – and then when someone here on staff tries to talk to them about the problem, Mr. Big Ego walks off in a huff because nobody is going to tell him what he can do online! Sheesh.

When you are at a convention or a club, you notice that a small percentage of gamers have social issues. Well, the same thing is true online. Some people never learned how to behave, maybe they lack the capacity, some think they've earned the right to misbehave because of who they are.

Should we let back in that guy who can't control himself from attacking Flames of War players, despite every chance we gave him? What about the guy who calls Filipinos "monkeys"? That moron in Brazil who tracks down your employer information and makes trouble for you, because you disagreed with him on the forum? That Khurasan creep who became obsessed with one of our staff members, and couldn't stop himself from repeatedly sharing his sexual phobias? You wouldn't let these people in your house, you would kick them out of your club, but it's "sad" that they're no longer on TMP? Give me a break.

Rules are for everyone

There was an old guy at work who had been persistently harassing women for 30 years – the last time he did it, being a old guy didn't save him from the wrath that came down on him

Ah, the pleasures and pitfalls of dealing with people.
Some folks never learned that different people are different. We don't all believe the same things, or like the same things, or are interested in the same things. We don't even handle the conflicts the same way ("to each his own"; no, no, "covert or die").

Quite frankly, I'm surprised when more than two people are in a room together and none of them end up dead.

No

Bill,
No, they shouldn't get a pass. As others have said, the rules should apply to everyone. If someone can't behave civilly and show consideration for others, they should face the consequences. Giving and getting a second chance is ok after discussion and acceptance of common values and behavior norms, but when these are violated again, I'm personally not in favor of too many additional chances: some people refuse to learn and abide by the rules (for whatever reason), and end up being the 1% that you end up spending 50% of your time on. After 43 years combined dealing with young Marines and recalcitrant middle schoolers I can appreciate the frustration it must cause you. But remember, there are a lot of us out here, although we're silent most of the time, who applaud you for taking on the responsibility of running this forum, and greatly appreciate the way you run and police it. Thanks for what you do, and how you do it. Tom

As I said in another, related, thread:

Bill, this is your virtual property; no one, including me, has the right to come onto your property, and dump garbage all over it.

Enforce the rules, keep TMP civil. It is what makes TMP worth visiting, worthy of maintaining a membership on.

A free-for-all zone, where hate, and other uncivil behavior is welcome, is not an inviting, nor friendly place. Neither are they places I frequent. Cheers!

Behind you all the way Bill.

Bill, as so well stated above, this is your company, your enterprise and I am grateful for it…visit as least 3 times a day…no one has time for wars on TMP…I enjoy this place for the wealth of ideas and discussions with fellow gamers. If you need to vent, use social media, not TMP.

I mean, do what you want, it's your site, but there's only one person I see creating new threads every few days over the same dang drama instead of making the call one way or the other, and it ain't everyone's favorite AWI gamer; if people are being problems, just deal with it instead of dragging it out in the court of public opinion seven times seventy times.

At the risk of being crude, F ‘em. This is a society, we have rules. We're not filthy animals… Well, except for those of us who are…

Couple thoughts:

It's a strange mindset of the last few decades that says if we can see a reason someone broke the rules we should overlook the breaking of the rule. This is idiocy. Of *course* there's a reason, and if there weren't we could certainly invent one. Unless intent is part of the rule, what was going on in your mind when you broke the rule is irrelevant. Out with moral relativism. You just embitter the people who try to follow the rules when you don't apply them.

Secondly, the internet requires strong ignoring skills. You need the capacity to overlook things. I promise you that right now someone, somewhere, is posting something you vehemently disagree with. Right now someone is posting something you find morally repugnant. If you can't sleep knowing that you're going to need serious help.

If I post to a forum and someone suggests I should not have because I'm not one of the regulars, I am going to feel a little hurt but then I am going to vigorously pay no attention. If someone suggests that I don't know what I'm talking about, well, in one sense they are undoubtedly right and in another sense they are undoubtedly wrong, and there's no point in spending the time unpacking that. If they point out something I didn't know about I can go consider it. If they just think they're right and don't need to reconsider anything that's not something I will enjoy or get paid for addressing, so I'll leave it.

I've noticed recently that a lot of threads will have 243 views and 3 comments. That tells you something. Not everyone or every viewpoint is equally vocal. Some people have peculiar opinions/feelings and they talk about them endlessly, making it appear that those are important, widely held views, when in reality they are just views held by someone with nothing better to do.

So you need to worry about making TMP great for the people who want the TMP you want to build. Don't worry about the people who don't want what you are trying to build. The secret to failure is trying to please everyone.

This is boring. Someone please ask again what clear coat to use on their miniatures.

Old crusty gamers should follow the same rules as the rest of us old gamers and crusty gamers.

Being at times (hopefully not often) a "crusty old gamer", I agree that we should not be given a pass. A reminder of etiquette is good for everyone.

It's somewhat of a medical fact that the older you get the more you lose your "filters" and will say what's on your mind without really thinking if it is correct for the situation.

I have a friend who was sitting in a car parking lot with their 88-year-old grandfather who they had never heard cuss or say anything inappropriate. A nice looking woman walked by and grand pa remarked, "Nice t-ts".

I know of one former TMP member who was a good contributor but had a problem with one particular member and I think it was his PTSD issues (Iraq Vet) that were manifesting but he'll never admit it.

Wolfhag

I know of one former TMP member who was a good contributor but had a problem with one particular member and I think it was his PTSD issues (Iraq Vet) that were manifesting but he'll never admit it.

Reminds me of one of our older wargamers who had to be "excused from TMP" because of his over-the-top attacks on Warhammer players. He was also suffering from PTSD issues (police).

Someone wrote to accuse me of kicking people off TMP for "trivial" reasons. I told him to go himself. (OK, not my best moment, but I did use the emoticon.)

He responds:

Bill

Well that was a very adult reponse! How common of you to swear and use foul language. And how child like to resort to throwing a temper tantrum when things are falling apart around you. You are causing the very sure you built to fail and fall apart over trivial issues which somehow have hurt your feelings and caused you a jealous rage. Each thing as of late has been your own doing.

Shall we start with this stupid vendetta against Annie? So she broke a forum rule. How common, Tango does it everyday. In fact he has given free advertising to numerous companies and people but you never cared. But you attacked her and remove her posting. Could it have been her topic? International woman's day? Ya, that really was it if you are honest with yourself. Still angry that people who support her were not nice to you you invent a attack I on you. I say invent because anyone who looked at Twitter knew you were making it up and were causing a fight where none existed. I guess that is a problem Bill; people can get both sides of a story and that exposed your lies.

The locked accounts of both Bill N. And Winston/John The OFM was more child like tantrums. Your feelings were still hurt you were still not getting the support and baking you felt was deserved. So you banded two of the nicest and popular people on your site. And you took away yet another advertiser. Again, both individuals are on the internet. Both individuals are on other forums. And both individuals have posted their sides of the stories for all to see. Twist and turn as much as you like you are exposed for your hypocrisy.

Oh! You think there are internet wars against your site? How foolish of you. Or should I say how narcistic of you. Lead Adventures does not know you exist. Mike's forum (which you help start by more of your temper tantrum) never mentioned you once. Frothers is there to point and laugh and poke a stick at you. They do so a good job of exposing the right wing nature of you and your site. How you protect your friends and punish your "enemies." And there are numerous other sites which are given vent to others you have kicked out. A search of your name on Google turns up a lot of people who show the world who you are and it is not pretty. Remember Katie? It is all out there.

So Bill, tell me to f' off. I hope that made you feel better. It made me laugh. Because I copied the page and yes It will reappear sometime. But that is alright. Because I am sure It made you feel more like a man. And you really need to feel more like a man, don't you Bill?

Is he trying to say that Winston Smith exiting TMP is linked to the Bad Squiddo kerfluffle? I thought everyone had moved on from that.

Also, where did I ever say anything about internet wars against TMP? That's coming out of left field…

(I've addressed the comments about Annie on the Bad Squiddo discussion, rather than complicating this discussion.)

Crusty old gamers like me use Winsor & Newton acrylic artists varnish, both gloss and matt.

@JD UK

I want to give that a try some time. It does get a lot of mentions as being SUPER flat. Testor's DullCote has been very reliable for me.

Now we need someone to ask what glue to use.

Absolutely NOT! Civility transcends age and culture!

+1 ANdrew Walters---"vigorously pay no attention" I'm going to start doing more of that!!

I think some people tend to regard this place to be like a Main street Bank where they can be as rude as they like to the tellers who can only be polite in return.

As had been said many times before its more like a Pub owned and run by the owner. He sets the rules and can be as direct as he feels the situation warrants it.

The suggestion is a non-starter. How would we identify crusty gamers in the first place ? How could anyone know my age ? Even if I "self identified" I could still be a 20 year old who has just really researched Old School gaming to come up with a set of believable anecdotes about Dragonmeets and games Days from the 1980s.

I do think the rules apply to everyone, but despite comments above I also do miss some of the people who got themselves barred. I suppose because I enjoyed their contributions – and they didn't put my back up or my nose out of joint.

A renaming might be in order: Crustymusket?

Well, my goodness Bill, I am glad you have gotten that off your chest. It's interesting to see what's going on behind the curtain at times (e.g., learning a few details as to why a particular person is no longer posting), but I am glad that this is relatively infrequent. I fully agree with it's your house and your rules and feel you have been pretty decent with enforcing them. Don't let a few grind you down.

kerfluffle

It's that a German dish made with potatoes ?

Hmmm…I qualify as 'old' (78 on July 2nd coming up)
and as a 'gamer type' (for these past 66 years – and yes,
I started with toy soldiers at the age of 12) but
not sure about the 'crusty' part.

I do have opinions – but I was taught a REALLY LONG
TIME AGO to be respectful of other folks who may not
want to hear my thoughts/opinions and if I REALLY
wanted to vent, write 'em down on paper and then either
burn the paper or toss it.

So, perhaps 'crusty,' but with a veneer of couth.

No pass needed, I hope – and thanks, Grandpa…

@PrivateS

Which glue to use?

Now that opens up a whole new chapter that would take forever and a day and also a new posting.

Old crusties will know what you mean when you say 'contact adhesive' whereas younger ones only know about superglue and plastic cement.

Sitting where I am just now I can see at least 8 types of glue, all different and I usually use at least of them daily.

One day, one day.

look they are not giving John Wayne a pass on his Playboy interview from 1970 <that's almost 50 years ago> so why should starch shirt hey you kids get off my lawn geezers TMP members be getting a break now

No.

"Be Nice or Leave" is often the sign found up over the bar in taverns I frequent. Apropos?

Let's see, I mainly use the gel super glue to glue figures to bases. I also use the liquid kind for certain things.

Matt medium for basing and terrain work along with Elmer's for terrain mainly.

I use the Testors plastic glue which is super runny with the pointy tip applicator. I don't do much with plastics but every time I do I feel like I want something different. Not so much because of how it works (seems to glue stuff fine) but because of how it applies.

I have a glue for hard plastics I used once that was recommended to glue some Litko markers together. It did not frost the plastics as was indicated.

I also have used spray adhesive here and there on terrain.

I use the contact cement to glue magnetic sheet to mdf/plywood bases to make movement trays and or bases to organize my units. I base my 28mm stuff on fender washers with a magnet in the hole.

I guess that makes 8 glues for me, but really 95% of the time it's gel stuff from Home Despot.

Being old and crusty myself I find that most people, including members of my own family really don't care what I have to say about nearly everything, so BFD, I only give my opinions then to people who want to hear them, my dog doesn't seem to mind.

Ah, the pleasures and pitfalls of dealing with people.

That's why I prefer the company of my dog, she's a real good listener, and sometimes my donkey, when he's not being an ass. (smile)