"The Duke or The Draft Dodger?" Topic

"John Wayne is undisputedly one of the most popular stars in American history. His vast legacy of films, which set the cinematic standards for the decades to come, granted him immortality and rightly made him an icon.

Though he died in June 1979, he's still idolized by innumerable people as the face of American ideals and values. Even today, there's hardly any "favorite film star" list in which the Duke – as the actor is nicknamed – isn't seen among the top spots.

But despite being hailed by many as "the greatest of the great," Wayne had a darker side to his personality, unknown even to his closest friends…"
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Amicalement
Armand

John Wayne did not dodge the draft. He was 34 years old when WWII broke out. He had four kids and got a legitimate deferment. That's not draft dodging. Draft dodging is doing something illegal, immoral, or unethical to avoid serving in the military. John Wayne did not. He also attempted to enlist in the OSS, and was eventually turned down.

He did USO tours and he made patriotic movies. Those were much more important than enlisting as a private soldier.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek
Bunker Talk blog

I think the issue for some is Wayne was in so many war films post war acting the hero, but did not serve in WW2 when he could have.

I understand he had no obligation to go, so was not a draft dodger.

Personally I'm not a fan of John Wayne. It's worth knowing his WW2 service history but I personally don't make a big deal of it. Wayne was a movie star. That's all.

I think that Wayne's later hawkish and judgemental views make him a legitimate subject of criticism. Whether he served in WW2 or not was his business. I wouldn't criticise him for that alone. But when he proceeded to judge those who didn't wish to serve in Vietnam, it is a bit hard not to see that as hypocrisy. There were plenty of others who didn't serve. Errol Flynn was a prime example, particularly when his friend David Niven returned to the UK to enlist, at considerable cost to his career.

James Stewart. He da man

James Stewart. He da man

Indeed he was. I think Clark Gable was also in the airforce. Served as a gunner IIRC.

Wayne and Russian Agents: link

Wolfhag

Lee Marvin was a Marine, and got seriously wounded.

I'm not a fan of Wayne, he goes into monologues in all his movies usually spouting his particular brand of Republicanism.(his Alamo is nothing but that)
A very boring actor.

I have to agree with Aussie. If you could have served – but didn't – taking a hawkish view on subsequent conflicts does seem hypocritical. But he didn't dodge the draft.

Big differences between being drafted, draft dodging, and volunteering. I would imagine after being hounded so many times about NOT going, a faulty or non-existent typewriter, my dog ate the notice, I forgot it at home, harpy ex-wife, or Lee Marvin's already their would be a rather proper response for some inquisitive reporter.

It varies widely. Lee Marvin was 17 and not yet in the movie business when he volunteered for the Marines so really doesnt fit into the narrative.

For the "real stars" the War Department was worried about effect on morale should a Hollywood celebrity become a casualty.

Clark Gable, though also over age, volunteered for the Air Corps, was commissioned and trained as a photographer and aerial gunner. He officially flew 5 combat missions to get footage for a film the War Department was making about aerial gunners in action. Apparently though it was widely known that Gable would fill in on other combat missions despite the obvious danger.

Jimmy Stewart after several attempts to get in the service was finally able to enlist in March 1941 prior to the US active involvement. He was able to work some angles to get into flight training since he was over the age limit (among other things he had 400 hours flight time as a civilian pilot, which helped). He was commissioned in Jan of 42. Originally he was kept Stateside training pilots and aircrew since the War Department didnt wish to possibly lose him in combat. Once again Stewart made various appeals and eventually was assigned as the commander of a B-24 Bomber squadron working his way up to full Colonel and command of a Wing.

I can not second guess anyone. And those saying John Wayne was not a draft dodger are correct. But as both Gable and Stewart, among others, have shown when there is a will there is a way.

All of these posts seem to selectively ignore Bunkermeister's statement that Wayne volunteered for the OSS.

Tom

All of these posts seem to selectively ignore Bunkermeister's statement that Wayne volunteered for the OSS.

As to his expressing his political views in movies, Hollywood does a lot of that. Usually they are the opposite of Wayne's.

Tom

Niven took part in the fighting in France 1940 with the Rifle Brigade and later the D-Day landings too.

Eddie Albert.

He was awarded the Bronze Star for rescuing American soldiers during the Battle of Tarawa while under heavy gunfire in 1943. He also lost a portion of his hearing from the noise of the battle

Robert Montgomery, Wayne's co-star in "They Were Expendable",
older than John Wayne volunteered for the Navy in WW2 and
rose to the rank of Lieutenant commander.
John Ford was also in the navy and used to torment John Wayne
on the set of They Were Expendable due to Wayne's lack of service.

Does John Wayne not serving make The Shootist or True Grit less entertaining?

IIRC John Wayne had a knee injury in collage that ended his football career. did this affect his cability to serve?
BTW my facvorite actor, I don't find him boring at all.

whill4, no and I still enjoy most of the Duke's old cowboy movies.

But men like Jimmy Stewart, Clark Gable, Robert Montgomery, and others did serve when they didn't have to. They should be remembered even tho they don't have the "macho" reputation of other actors that chose not to serve

Plus Harry Carey Jr. was in many of Wayne's movies served in the U.S. Navy in World War II.

People tend to forget that Wayne had his classic "gait" due to that football injury. He never fully recovered from that and that alone might have been an issue in actual combat.

Root of the problem – communist apologist just attempting to smear anyone who didn't follow the party line.

Thier hate will never end.

+1 VCarter!

TVAG

I find it hard to be critical of someone, with four young dependents, not volunteering for combat when there are other ways to contribute.

Personal Observation: John Wayne was about the same age as my grandfather. When WW2 broke out my grandfather was married with kids. He had served briefly in the army after WW1. My grandfather did not volunteer to rejoin the army after Pearl Harbor. Instead he spent the war making steel. I am sure my grandfather would have served if he had been drafted, but he wasn't. The same was true of many men my grandfather's age. I don't think I can fairly hold anyone else, including a Hollywood movie war hero, to a different standard.

relevant to The Old West

The problem isn't that he didn't fight. The problem is he felt other men should fight and die in a useless war.

IIRC John Wayne had a knee injury in collage that ended his football career. did this affect his cability to serve?

Potentially.

Depends on how hurting the Army was for troops. Standards would vary greatly, even when I was in post 9-11, on what was an acceptable 'issue'.

A very boring actor.

I don't think anyone would claim Wayne was the greatest actor of his generation. He did have a somewhat limited range. My favourite films of his are Stagecoach his breakthrough role, which although full of Hollywood cowboy cliches, such as cowboy out for vengeance, tart with a heart, drunken doc comes good, lawman with a conscience and the quirky sidekick, John Ford manages to put the whole thing together well. The other is his final film The Shootist, where he puts the whole Duke legend to rest. The character he plays acknowledges that the world he inhabited is changing and he no longer has a place in it, much like Wayne himself where the kind of films he acted in would not be made any longer. As such it has a poignant feel as the films I enjoyed as a youth where the good guys walked tall and shot straight and the bad guys wore black and mostly missed were being replaced with antiheroes where even the good guys were bad.

John Wayne as an actor was not unlike Charlton Heston (who served in the USAAF) as an actor. Both made the best of their opportunities with their limited range in the typecasted roles they had.

As for serving in WWII, Hollywood actors usually get low-risk assignments intended as much for PR anyway so it's not such a big deal.

John Wayne made USO tours overseas in WWII and in Viet Nam. Not everyone has to serve as a soldier to contribute to the war effort.

V Carter is correct in his assertion.

Clark Gable joined after resisting joining. However, when his wife Carole Lombard was killed in a plane crash after a bond rally. She had encouraged him to join the service prior to her death, but he had been reluctant.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek
Bunker Talk blog

Wayne broke his collar bone which ended his college football career. As such the broken collar bone did not have anything to do with his walk.

Several interesting theories about how he did develop his signature gait:
link

This same tired argument surfaces from time to time. As noted above, he was deferred from the draft because of age and number of children. Against John Ford's wished he DID try to enlist in the Navy, but the injury that ended his football carrier at USC ( a severely separated shoulder from body surfing) also made him a 4F. But the detractors will spew their venom without actually reading any of the biographies about him.

I dont see anyone spewing venom. In fact seems everyone agrees that, despite the provocative title, Mr Wayne was NOT a draft dodger.

And as to facts John Wayne was never 4F. Rather, due to his wife and four children he was 3A which was perfectly legal. In 1944, facing manpower shortages, the US reclassified many men who previously qualified for other exemptions. At the time Mr Wayne was tentatively classified 1A making him eligible for the draft. His studio made an appeal based on the morale value of his wartime movies and the government agreed designating him 2A which is deferred in support of the National interest.

Not on this post, but I have read plenty of writers how refer to his cowardice, etc.

On December 7, 1941, my father was already 34 years old.

He (so he always said) tried to enlist. He was rejected.

In 1943, at 36 years of age, he was drafted. He served in tank destroyers. Taught all the ways to destroy tanks, although his role was as a supply clerk (surprisingly good use of an "old" recruit with a business background). He was a father of one at that time (my oldest brother was born in 1942).

So yes, 34+ year old fathers could and were drafted. Just not in 1941 …

-Mark
(aka: Mk 1)

Hollywood steps up in the clutch: for example, Nancy Sinatra served as a volunteer AA gunner for the North Vietnamese Army.

;-)

B

I believe that was Jane Fonda.

There are many ways to serve your country in a time of war, ideally, they make the most of your talents. Not everyone needs to fight nor is everyone a born warrior. Without REMF's you don't have logistical support, mail, and paychecks. People call Conscientious Objectors "cowards" too. However, while wanting to avoid killing they are brave enough to go forward into battle unarmed to save wounded and dying comrades. If they are cowards then I'm one too as they are braver than I am.

My grandfather was a CO and stretcher bearer in WWI and spent more time in No Man's Land than any infantryman did and saved countless lives while undergoing 4+ hour artillery and gas bombardments as everyone else did.

Wayne was 34 years old with no particular experience to offer to the military (I think James Stewart had 400 hours flight time and used his influence to get combat).

If you were an infantry platoon leader and you had a choice of a 19-year-old in his physical prime, thinks he is indestructible and will do as he's ordered or a 34-year-old with football injuries, not in his prime and most likely wanting to play it safe because he has a wife and four kids back home would you choose? Who is going to make the most of the training?

In the long run, war is about defeating the will of the enemy to fight. That can be the front line troops or the people back home (think Vietnam). Throughout WWII the US conducted massive propaganda and morale-boosting programs to keep the people involved and buying war bonds.

What did the US do with their war heroes? Why they sent them back to the states to sell war bonds and pump up morale because that was the best use they had to the war effort. Wayne portrayed those heroes on the movie screen making people feel it's a worthwhile endeavor. Of course, he always played the hero, that's what people expected.

Major League Baseball offered to cancel their seasons during the war but Roosevelt told them to keep playing as the people needed some recreation and entertainment. So if you were a ball player you were doing your small part too.

John Wayne's biggest asset for the war was not carrying an M1 as a PFC but as part of the government war propaganda machine – in that he succeeded. Whether you like his movies or not, think he's a hypocrite or not, those movies communicated best to the civilians back home why we fight, the large and small sacrifices made and gave them something to be proud of. It was a morale booster. Whether he did it to be patriotic or make $$, in the end, it really does not matter. Kaiser Shipbuilders was not ashamed of turning a profit on Liberty ships nor were the shipbuilders ashamed of their paychecks.

Yes, Wayne had a lot of personal "good times" with starlets and getting choice roles as many other actors were in the military, he made a lot of money. GI's on war bond tours had a good time too.

After WWII there was a serious move from the Army and Truman Administration to do away with the Marine Corps. Did John Wayne singlehandedly save the Marine Corps in 1949? You be the judge:
link

Wolfhag

"I believe that was Jane Fonda."

OMG – You're absolutely right! My sincerest apologies to Nancy.

B

+1 Wolfhag.

BTW, while everyone thinks that William Shatner invented his signature Star Trek tumble and roll move, the Duke first introduced it in "The Sands of Iwo Jima".

B

Look at Lew Ayres;Initially a CO,but became a medic and chaplain's aide. Even got decorated for retrieving wounded while under fire.

Clark Gable joined after resisting joining.

He was not long married to Carole Lombard and I guess he didn't want to leave her (I don't blame him, I wouldn't have wanted to leave her either). He was also under contract to MGM and they didn't want to lose him and pushing the wrong side of 40 when war broke out. He did join up, served some combat missions, but was very much the poster boy for a drive to recruit aerial gunners.
Jimmy Stewart was the exception for Hollywood stars. His contract had expired in 1940, so wasn't beholden to any studio. He was an experienced pilot with 400 hours flying time and a full commercial pilots license. As such although overage for combat flight training he was eligible for a Service Pilot Rating and service pilots were allowed to transfer to combat flying after a years service. This he did and eventually with some badgering on his part got assigned to a B-24 Group and flew 20 combat sorties.
But in general the services were reluctant to put Hollywood stars in harms way and they were used mostly to boost morale and recruiting. Stars with extensive combat service like Audie Murphy were mostly unknown and has post war film careers.

Fred,
You brought up a good point. It would be bad PR to lose a celebrity. This is why many MOH awardees (now a celebrity?) were brought back to the states and did training and bond drives. IIRC they tried to keep John Basilone stateside but he wanted to go back. It would be interesting to see how many WWII MOH awardees were killed AFTER they received the award (not posthumously).

Conscientious Objectors

When the war started, not everyone was eager to serve. Many had to be drafted. And others objected to war in any form. Some of these objectors came to their beliefs on their own; others were members of several Christian denominations that are known as the historic peace churches. These include the Quakers, Mennonites, Church of the Brethren and Seventh Day Adventists. In York County, Nebraska, Henderson is a predominantly Mennonite community.

The question was what to do with these objectors when the country was fighting for its survival. During the Civil War, Quakers pressured Congress to allow members of the peace churches to perform alternate service, usually acting as medics who would care for wounded soldiers but not fight themselves.

The World War I draft law recognized the peace churches, but prosecuted anyone else who objected on the basis of their own beliefs. Five hundred objectors were court-martialed – 17 received death sentences for refusing to fight. Although none of the death sentences was carried out, almost 150 objectors were jailed for life, and others were harassed and beaten.

Finally, in World War II, the draft law exempted from military service those who "by reason of religious training and belief" opposed war. The objectors still served. They were assigned to "work of national importance." This service fell into two types:

First, about 25,000 objectors served in the military in "noncombatant" roles. They were medics who were in the Army but didn't carry a gun.

Second, those who objected to being the military served on the home front. About 20,000 objectors fought forest fires, built conservation projects in rural areas, or took care of the mentally ill in hospitals.

There were objectors who refused to even register for the draft, believing that the draft itself was supporting the killing. About 6,000 of these men went to jail.

So if you think Wayne's movies were a "work of national importance" technically he didn't dodge the draft. If you think they were not then you can think he was a draft dodger. There were tens of thousands of healthy draft-age males that serves in manufacturing, etc in vital war industries.

Once I was talking to a young enlistee in the USAF and I asked him why he didn't join the Marines. He smiled and said, "because I don't want to be in combat". There's nothing wrong with that. The military could not do without qualified Load Masters.

The military academies were not emptied out with all of the students forced to become enlisted although some did enlist voluntarily. Life goes on. My mom had a college scholarship but enlisted in the Coast Guard and went overseas. My dad stayed in college to graduate as an officer and become a Naval Aviator and just missed the war.

During the VN War, we had a few friends that joined the National Guard, many said they were dodging the draft. I know others that joined a religious order and then left it after the war was over. I think the US government understood they had enough warm bodies for combat and gave people an option to "serve" their country in a different capacity.

Maybe that is a good idea. I would not want to serve in combat with a guy that absolutely and positively does not want to be there.

Wolfhag

Agreed Wolfhag, I would never criticise Wayne for not serving in combat anymore than I would someone who worked in a factory, coal mine or steel works. But forgive me for reserving a special admiration for the likes of Jimmy Stewart. No one would have criticised him for serving out his time in the US training, but he chose to put himself in harms way at great personal cost. He suffered with PTSD, as did Audie Murphy. Stewart didn't speak much about it, but Murphy did, and campaigned for veterans to get the help they needed. Only right, those who serve in harms way should get the care they need afterwards. Both great men and true heroes.

Acting is, essentially, pretending to be someone you are not. Therefore, I have no problem with actors portraying people with very different characters, sexual orientations, religious or political beliefs than their own. Just as well most actors are far more pacific than the 'heroes' and 'villains' they portray, or the world would be a very dangerous place indeed! So, I can enjoy John Wayne's better films without caring whether he served in WWII or not – which is not to say I don't admire actors like James Stewart who did.

I do however, feel a degree of distaste for Wayne's using his celebrity as an actor of 'macho' rules to lend credibility to his somewhat hypocritical views about serving in the Vietnam War.