"British Inf. Squad & Platoon Orgs. - 1944?" Topic

I'd like some info on the late-war, British infantry squad and platoon organizations for 1944 and 1945 (Normandy landings and beyond).

IIRC, they were mostly equipped with rifles, and one Bren per squad (3 squads to a platoon, I think). The squad leader(s) might have a pistol, and/or a Sten/Thompson SMG.

I think the strengths were somewhere between 8 – 12 men per squad, but am not really sure (that seems to work for most nations' squads from the era).

I'd like to know the number of men in a squad, and platoon – full permitted strength, and averages in the field.

Info on attachments at the Platoon HQ and Company levels would be very useful too, e.g. Vickers machine guns, PIATS, mortars, and other useful equipment too, I suspect.

Sadly, the BayonetStrength link seems to have gone MIA:

TMP link

While we're at it, might as well ask if there is a difference for infantry units transported in halftracks, and for the Para units too, I suspect, if anyone has good TO&E info for those too?

I am getting bayonetstrength back up and the standard British Infantry Battalion is on there now;

bayonetstrength.uk

Gary

That's great Gary!

Thanks for sharing.

I assume that "machine carbine" means either a Sten or Thompson SMG for the British lists.

Never read that term before.

Is that correct?

Yes, that was the wartime British terminology for a submachine gun so I stuck with it.

Gary

Starfury, that's a great thing to do – many thanks on behalf of all lazy people (like me).

Thanks Gary!

I was using You old site through Way Back Machine.

Thanks from me too, great resource!

Due to losses and the LOB system UK and Commonwealth sections often had 6-8 men in action. Often only bout 20 men in the whole platoon.

Thanks for the info.

I thought I'd read that some offensive operations in Normandy/France by the Allies had to be delayed due to infantry losses.

Of course, there were supply bottlenecks as well, due to the lack of deepwater supply ports, and damage to the Mulberry harbours.

Gary, This is a blessing as loved the previous one and all the info. Thanks heaps mate.

I think the main thing is that the British adopted a slightly different approach to the US/Germans/Russians. The battalion had four small rifle companies, not the three rifle companies of other nations, they also didn't have MMGs in a battalion support company (they were concentrated in the divisional MG battalion). They did however have the mysterious battalion 'carrier platoon' which had the same firepower as a rifle company but half the men, and provided an additional reserve of mobile firepower.

At platoon level though, they were much like any other nations platoon, three sections of 6-10 men centred around an LMG, the rest armed with rifles and the odd SMG plus a small platoon HQ with a light mortar. There ws no company level weapons platoon, although sometimes the 2" mortars were concentrated into a company level group. Similarly the AT weapons were notional held a company level but in practice we usually doled out to individual platoons.

During times of the 'great infantry shortage', it was not uncommon to disband one of the rifle companies, the AT platoon and carrier platoon, and distribute the surplus Brens to the remaining infantry, so you'd have a small platoon of 20 or so men with up to six Brens. See e.g. 43 Div in August 1944.

there was also a 'normandy org' which had all the brens in one unit and all the rifles in another.

British infantry squad

In case you haven't realised it yet, British do not use "squad" as an organisational term. Instead, the platoon splits into sections (each of which is typically commanded by a corporal).

Cavalry units have squadron as an organisational term, but that is typically a formation consisting of multiple troops and having a major as the officer commanding. Multiple squadrons are then organised into a regiment, which has a lieutenant colonel as the commanding officer.

If you are used to the military terminology of the former cross-Atlantic colonies, then the British terminology can be a different cup of tea.

Just on Left Out of Battle, I recently got copies of Infantry Notes for 21 Army Group (Nov44 to Apr/May45) and Progress Bulletin (Infantry), or PBI (Jul43 to Mar45). I was hoping one or other might offer some solid info on LoB, but neither gives it even a passing mention, even if only to say 'stop doing it'. I think there's one file that refers to it in the National Archives, so there might be something to be found on its usage.

Gary

Gary, I love your work.

Really good to see a reborn bayonet strength.