Timmo uk | 11 Mar 2019 11:31 a.m. PST |
I began my ECW collection 40 years ago and I'm refreshing some parts of it, including recreating some of the flags I hand painted more years ago than I care to remember, including those for Gerrad's regiment of foot. In their book, ECW Colours first published eons ago Peachy and Prince made a compelling case for these colours not being the then commonly accepted blue and 'yellow' but instead blue and 'brown'. Their argument hinged on the interpretation of the colour Filemort. Translated this means the colour of a dead leaf. However, since dead leaves have a wide variety of colours this alone is inconclusive evidence. They go on to list a French flag, that from memory was 'Navarre', for which the filemort description was referencing a brown colour. The more recent BCW Wiki entry gives a very interesting gem of information by Symonds who, in 1675, wrote that the colour Filemort was actually a colour that tended towards a golden yellow not the brown of the Peachy Prince reference at all. Yesterday while trying to find further references I came across the Royal English Dictionary of 1761. And whilst post-dating the ECW by about 120 years the word Filemort is listed. Again it is confirmed to mean the colour of a dead-leaf. The dictionary also states 'see Folio-mort' and again defines this as the colour of a dead leaf. However, it elaborates: 'a dark yellow colour'. Hurrah! I now think that the two English references we have to the colour confirm, that at least in Britain, the colour is understood to have been a dark golden yellow. (This dictionary defines Feuilemort [the French word] a meaning a dead or a faded leaf.) I'm rather glad about this as I always thought the Peachy/Prince Blue Brown flag to be too dour and because of this I was never convinced by their argument in favour of this colouring. |
4DJones | 11 Mar 2019 11:47 a.m. PST |
Most standards are made up of primary colours (red-yellow-blue) or secondary colours (green-orange-purple). possibly with black and/or white. I can't think of an ECW standard with a tertiary colour on it (e.g. brown = a mix of red-yellow-blue). And as you suggest Timmo, let's be bright, not dour. |
KeepYourPowderDry | 11 Mar 2019 12:06 p.m. PST |
I'm of the yellow camp. Bright and bold. (Fahnen under Standarten shows it yellow too) |
Wherethestreetshavnoname | 11 Mar 2019 1:04 p.m. PST |
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Timbo W | 11 Mar 2019 5:17 p.m. PST |
Some peculiar colours were issued to Straffords army in Ireland in. 1640 Tichborne ash and red Wharton gridelin and green Terringham olive and blue From Peachey & Prince As for Gerards yellowy orangey goldy brown I think :-) |
Codsticker | 11 Mar 2019 10:52 p.m. PST |
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12thFoot | 12 Mar 2019 6:06 a.m. PST |
Standards tended to follow heraldic rules, which say that you can't put a colour on a colour. A 'metal' (i.e. gold or silver, yellow or white) can go on a colour and a colour on a metal. This would also support Filemort being yellow rather than brown. |
KeepYourPowderDry | 12 Mar 2019 7:25 a.m. PST |
Goes off to Google 'gridelin'… Grey-violet in case you were wondering |
Steamingdave2 | 12 Mar 2019 11:32 a.m. PST |
At this oeriod colours woukd be produced by natural dyes, such as onion skin or weld. If onion skin used it can give a browny yellow: link Weld tends to give a brighter yellow: link To my eye, the colours produced by onion skin look close to the description of " Filemort" |
Timmo uk | 13 Mar 2019 2:55 a.m. PST |
Steamingdave2 That's a fantastic resource to see, thanks for posting. Most ECW foot colours follow the rules of heraldry but a few don't, off the top of my head I can think of Pennyman's major's colour and the Duke of York using red and black. However the Gerrad colour does still break the rules since it has a gold laurel wreath over the 'yellow' part of the field. I'm presuming this would have been hand painted – would the leaves be gold (metallic) or yellow. Any further thoughts not he use of metallic paint on ECW colours. I know the KLG had silver from Peachy Prince as they define areas that a called silver but in fact are white. |
12thFoot | 13 Mar 2019 5:52 a.m. PST |
Timmo, the white area is silver. Heraldry doesn't use metallic paints, so silver is white and gold is yellow . There are five standard colours – purpure, azure, gules, vert, sable (purple, blue, red, green, black) Three stains – sanguine, murrey, tenne (maroon, mauve, light brown) Two metals – or, argent (gold/yellow, silver/white) Two furs – Ermine and Vair The basic rule is: a colour object should not overlay a colour field, nor a metal object a metal field. So you should be able to tell if a yellowy-orange object is representing gold by checking the colour it is sitting on. If on one of the Colours, it is gold. If on white or yellow, it is likely to be either Tenne or Orange, or not following the rules. The Earl of Essex' orange was a non-standard colour for English heraldry, though more popular in France. Part-lifted from the Heraldry Society's Historical Heraldry Handbook PDF link |
Timmo uk | 13 Mar 2019 12:50 p.m. PST |
Thanks for confirming that – a relief that I haven't got to repaint my KLG flags after all. |