Tango01 | 09 Mar 2019 3:21 p.m. PST |
Cool!
Main page link Amicalement Armand
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deadhead | 10 Mar 2019 3:43 a.m. PST |
That is one massive tunnel by Vietnam standards………. |
Pauls Bods | 10 Mar 2019 9:24 a.m. PST |
Drop in a Grenade perhaps? |
Legion 4 | 10 Mar 2019 10:04 a.m. PST |
Nice modelling … Yes a grenade would do. We were shown footage of US ARMY troops filling the tunnels with propane … then dropping in a grenade, etc., … |
Pauls Bods | 10 Mar 2019 10:56 a.m. PST |
!! I can see that having the effect but Wasn´t that a bit risky? What if the tunnel went under where they were Standing? |
deadhead | 10 Mar 2019 12:08 p.m. PST |
OK, let us agree anything gaseous you drop down that hole must be heavier than air. Hang on, anything combustible tends not to fit that bill. The locals also had a trick of creating sumps which were flooded, so that you could fill the tunnels even with Zyklon B (I stress no suggestion they did however, not in this cultural climate!), but they would safely crouch behind a water filled trap and wait for you. Tear gas was used, other than that respiratory agents were then banned by international convention. Very hard to set fire to the atmosphere in a subterranean environment.
That is why the poor tunnel rats went into holes a damn sight narrower than shown here.
No, I have never been a tourist to Cu Chi. They have widened the tunnels for us folk ++++
Neither of the US gents has a headlight, a bone conduction radio com, they are not remotely equipped for a tunnel. Funny thing. was the soil not red also. The whole God forsaken country, one thousand miles by about twenty miles (slight exaggeration) was red dust or mud when it rained (eight months of the year)
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Old Glory | 10 Mar 2019 3:02 p.m. PST |
Agree totally Deadhead, left in 1969 and never been back and never want to go back --- left nothing there but some blood, sweat, and tears. I will ad that the two guys on top look a little large for tunnel rats and that tunnel is huge!! Regards Russ Dunaway |
Tango01 | 10 Mar 2019 3:21 p.m. PST |
Glad you like it my good friend!. Amicalement Armand
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Wolfshanza | 10 Mar 2019 10:38 p.m. PST |
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Lion in the Stars | 11 Mar 2019 1:29 a.m. PST |
This situation calls for a red smoke, a blue smoke, a Mighty Mite blower, and Hendrix' 'Purple Haze' on the radio! |
Legion 4 | 11 Mar 2019 6:37 a.m. PST |
OK, let us agree anything gaseous you drop down that hole must be heavier than air. Hang on, anything combustible tends not to fit that bill. Hey, I'm just saying what I remember from a training film. A long, long, time ago … It looked like a long hose was inserted into the hole. Filled with some gas and then detonated … ! I think this is the film I saw (?) … YouTube link
I think I heard about this device too … found it on the web …
Bunker Bomb. These were made from an ammo can which had a hole drilled in one end. A phosphorus grenade was then taken and unscrewed, the main body of the grenade was placed inside the can. The grenade lever is straightened and fuse is then passed through the drilled hole and screwed back onto the body. Finally the can is filled with napalm or thickened fuel. This should have been somewhat effective … |
deadhead | 11 Mar 2019 12:17 p.m. PST |
Ah, stick a tube down the hole and pump in something inflammable and gaseous. That would work, so long as no one put their finger in the end of the tube….. |
Legion 4 | 11 Mar 2019 4:02 p.m. PST |
Hey that is what IIRC saw on the US ARMY training film from 1969 … Never I did it … but … |
Skarper | 07 Apr 2019 11:42 p.m. PST |
I read the book 'The Tunnels of Cu Chi' long ago, and visited the museum in 2017. The tunnels you can get into are I understand replicas and much wider than the real ones. It's a good museum but if you do go try to get one of the 'Army' Guides and don't join one of the backpacker tours. I knew more than our guide. You could also just visit on your own if you know the history. According to the accounts in the books it was very hard to deal with the tunnels. Attempts to demolish then or flush them out with tear gas were at best only partially successful. Sending some poor devil down with a flashlight, commo wire and a .38 revolver was the only way to be sure. |
Legion 4 | 08 Apr 2019 8:19 a.m. PST |
As a commander, I would have been very reluctant using my troops as Tunnel Rats. Would have much rather used gas, demo, etc. |
Wolfhag | 11 Apr 2019 1:42 p.m. PST |
Legion, There were a lot of guys that volunteered and liked it. Gas and demo didn't work as the complexes had bad ventilation and were too large. Wolfhag |
Legion 4 | 11 Apr 2019 3:59 p.m. PST |
I heard that too Wolf. And yes as we saw gas, demo, etc. didn't work … |
deadhead | 14 Apr 2019 12:16 p.m. PST |
You have to ask… Does anyone who is genuinely Victor Charlie or Nathaniel Victor actually "Play" this? If not, well, maybe that is telling us summat. Are there elderly Vietnamese "playing" this tunnel rat thing? Other than for tourists and have those that claim to be, really guides. Can any VN gamers add to this forum please? Maybe too recent for me. Stick to 200 years ago for games. Folks who survived this are still struggling without limbs….those that made it, bless them. God help those countless that did not count USA as home. God I am a miserable b….d. Apologies. Very good lunch with a very extended family. Tomorrow I will know this was a mistake…but right now it seems a worthy rant
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Legion 4 | 15 Apr 2019 6:58 a.m. PST |
AFAIK there appears to be very few if any war gamers from/in Vietnam ? And many of VC/NVA from that war are like the US Vets today. Getting older everyday and dying daily. And I don't know if the Vietnamese have anything like our health care ? But I highly doubt it … Yes, sadly many from the Vietnam war and today's GWOT are missing a limb(s) and have PTSD, etc. I see many Vets from all those conflicts and before at the YMCA. Where I use the pools for my daily exercises for my replaced hip, degenerative arthritis, tendinitis, etc. Plus of course at the VA clinic where I get my primary and only healthcare. I met many from all our wars starting from WWII on. The Vets are getting younger as the GWOT continues. Many in the wars starting with GW 1 in '90-'91 who lost limbs would have been dead in other previous conflicts. So that is one positive thing. And with the type of conflicts we saw since then, we see more and more young females missing limbs, with PTSD, etc. I feel it's bad enough for a young male to lose a limb(s). But for a young girl … that seems to me to be worse … However, many Vets of the GWOT still take their own lives sadly. Just like following many years after Vietnam. |
Skarper | 15 Apr 2019 9:29 a.m. PST |
I live in Vietnam, but don't know any 'wargamers'. Lots of people play games but mostly abstract games. Survivors of the American and French wars are well looked after by local standards. They get free health care anyway. Survivors from the wrong side don't seem to get anything, which I think is very wrong. I think it would be possible to play games about the wars here quietly at home but any public events could meet with problems. |
Legion 4 | 15 Apr 2019 3:27 p.m. PST |
That is interesting … didn't know any of that. In a twist of fate. The cane, crutches and walker I got from the VA for my "injuries" were made in Vietnam. I'm sure the Vietnam Vets at the VA clearly see the "irony" … or not … |
Lion in the Stars | 16 Apr 2019 2:55 a.m. PST |
Does anyone who is genuinely Victor Charlie or Nathaniel Victor actually "Play" this? If not, well, maybe that is telling us summat. Well, some of the 'Murricans who were there don't have a problem playing battles they where physically present for. Others do. So it really depends. |
Legion 4 | 16 Apr 2019 7:59 a.m. PST |
I've played a few games as the VC or NVA … Of course I didn't graduate high school until '75. Then started ROTC later that year. |
Pyrate Captain | 21 May 2019 3:55 p.m. PST |
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SouthernPhantom | 09 Jun 2019 7:38 p.m. PST |
Well…set up a low-power exhaust fan at an entrance and it will create negative pressure, drawing gas through the complex. Hydrogen sulfide would be a good chemical agent to use. It has an SG higher than air, so will sink. It is explosive, but only at 4.5-45%, which is far higher than the lethal dose. Basically a mining ventilation problem, with the objective reversed! |
von Schwartz | 27 Aug 2019 5:30 p.m. PST |
OK, let us agree anything gaseous you drop down that hole must be heavier than air. Hang on, anything combustible tends not to fit that bill. MEK will fill the bill, methyl ethyl ketone, also blows up real good! |
deadhead | 28 Aug 2019 4:16 a.m. PST |
I may be wrong. But the Geneva Convention allows you to burn someone alive with a projected or pumped in flammable liquid. You can suffocate someone with smoke or incapacitate them with tear gas. But you cannot poison them. OH sure, tell that to those with stockpiles of nerve agents, but in the Vietnam War that would not have been too well received. |
Legion 4 | 28 Aug 2019 6:39 a.m. PST |
No reason to use nerve agents as there are many other "options". And generally Chem weapons can be hard to use especially in hot tropical weather. Plus the US didn't want to get involved with any sort of WMDs. For a number of reasons. |
von Schwartz | 28 Aug 2019 6:58 p.m. PST |
MEK is not a nerve agent, it is, or at least was, a key component in many industrial solvents and adhesives. |
Legion 4 | 29 Aug 2019 9:04 a.m. PST |
Yeah but if the US deployed something like that and those in the tunnels died from "Chem Gas" … it may have looked like a WMD. Frankly from a Grunt's POV, I know I and probably many others would have not had a problem with it. |