"Border Reivers and Irish Wars best treatment for tabletop" Topic

I've never gamed it but I am intrigued. In spite of the presence of pikemen is this mostly about skirmish games, even using rules like 1644 or is is a small unit action period?

I dont know who games this period on a regular basis but would like opinions.

Hmm. I'm marginal. I've got some armies, I've read up and I've played a little. I'm sure you can find better qualified. But that never stopped me expressing an opinion before.

I'm a little hazy about where you'd put the line between "skirmish" and "small unit action." Full-bore battles with units in drill-book formations seem to be scarce in both theaters. Following my normal rule that it must have at least six battles to be a period, you'd need a long stretch of time. But there are lots and lots of (poorly documented) actions of the cattle-rustling, burning out the village and raiding the supply wagons variety. It mostly seems to me to be Mersey territory--"Pikeman's Lament" with a touch of "Lion Rampant" or the other way around.

When I say skirmish vs small unit actions, for wargaming purposes, I consider skirmish to be single figure mountings vs multi-figure bases with like 6 units to a side (Not dissimilar to your six battle minimum rule which I intend to use.

However little you know, it's a lot more than I know. I am mostly pulled into it by the Assault Groups Tudor figures and the figures from Timeline miniatures link here.

It's a case of cool figures making me want to try a little gaming.

Incidentally, Watt's a good, readable book about the period too? Did you see what I did there? Watt's instead of What's?

Who said Border Reivering cant be fun?

The Steel Bonnets: The Story of the Anglo-Scottish Border Reivers, by George MacDonald Fraser. Unlike his Flashman books, this is solid and very readable history.

George McDonald Fraser: The Steel Bonnets (non-fiction), and The Candlemass Road and The Reivers (both non-fiction) seem to be a good place to start. I've not read the Reivers or the Candlemass Road; it appears they have some characters in common, or-it's possible-they are the same book under different titles. I'll leave it to someone who has read them to speak to that.

In case you haven't read Fraser (Flashman series) before, I find his fiction to be well-researched and his non-fiction to be very readable. He was also, BTW, the screenwriter for Richard Lester's Three and Four Musketeers.

Ah. I will second the endorsements of Fraser. Good books on the Irish Wars are tricky. You mostly get articles on Yellow Ford, and sometimes lives of the various commanders. There is a book on the army of Elizabeth I which covers some useful ground, and the title is very like that. Possibly "Elizabeth I's Army?"

But yes, for this period I would certainly mount figures individually, and I do myself. There are lots of battles at 1:1 or not much over, and very few so big you'd find multi-figure bases convenient in 28mm.

And I may have to pick up some of those Irish myself.

The Reivers is more from the Scottish side than Fraser's book and doesn't cover quite as much, but it is a good read. Most border reiver actions were raids and counter raids against rival families. 20 per side would be reasonable, with larger raids against towns by 100 plus forces. Hoka Hey makes great figures, with both foot and mounted versions of the figures (note it is worth painting both foot and mounted at the same time or you will have forgotten which colours you used originally).

Robert: Is this the Elizabeth's Army book:

link

I think I have a copy somewhere, but can't find it in a quick search so I can't say anything about its contents.

Both The Reviers and The Candlemass Road are by Fraser-or at least they are according to Amazon-so all three I mentioned are Fraser's book(s).

That's the one, I think. Thank you, Dennis.

And if I remember correctly, there's a little discussion of coat colors with an English preference for duller colors in Ireland--again suggesting an emphasis on raids and ambushes rather than pitched battles.

If you want to do something with 2-6 figures per base representing 20-60 men, you could try Irregular Wars. With about 8-12 bases constituting a force, it's meant to replicate small actions in the 16th and 17th centuries. More game than simulation, it still has a lot of fun features (rain affecting gunpowder, disease, units doing their own thing when out of command range, etc). They have army lists for the Scottish border and Ireland.

Im all about the game. Simulations are for people who are bored with their day jobs. I want to play.

I'll take a look at them.

I just took a look at those free Spanish Fly rules, or whatever, and they're a bore.

Any other good Renaissance rules for 6-8 units a side and not any of that +1, shift a column rubbish?

You know, I remember it well but it's from a very old Miniature Wargames Issue about the Revolt of the 5 Sacred Wounds in England during Henry VIIIs reign, seems there was a nice, neat mini set of rules for that campaign. Nice little things like that seem rare these days.

Did the English Border Horse act like a sort of dragoon force in Ireland? I mean did they fight on horse but then get on foot to chase Irish or defend if the terrain demanded it?

Another vote for:
link

But if you dont have that issue 78 of Wargames illustrated, you cant get the Steel Bonnet rules? Or were they published somewhere else?