PrivateSnafu | 20 Feb 2019 10:48 a.m. PST |
People Who Constantly Point Out Grammar Mistakes Are Pretty Much Jerks, Scientists Find link |
magical monstrous steve | 20 Feb 2019 10:54 a.m. PST |
Only the first word of a sentence should be capitalized and there should be a period at the end. :) |
rustymusket | 20 Feb 2019 11:00 a.m. PST |
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martin goddard | 20 Feb 2019 11:02 a.m. PST |
I am not upset by grammar mistakes . However some mistakes and omissions change the meaning. That is unfortunate and undesirable. My computer does it's own strange spell corrections too. Just relax and enjoy the scenery and animals with the other naturists. |
USAFpilot | 20 Feb 2019 11:12 a.m. PST |
Dont worry about you're grammer. The english language is a mess anyway, full of inconsistancies with reguard to spelling, and sentence structure, and tense. |
cavcrazy | 20 Feb 2019 11:15 a.m. PST |
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Extrabio1947 | 20 Feb 2019 11:16 a.m. PST |
So these two rather grumpy ladies from somewhere north of the Mason Dixon Line walk into a southern restaurant and are greeted by their waitress, a charming Belle with a typical Dixie Drawl. "Where y'all from?" asked the waitress. One of the ladies haughtily replied, "We are from a place where people do not end sentences with prepositions." "Well, then" the waitress replied with a wide smile, "Where y'all from, B*tch?" |
The Virtual Armchair General | 20 Feb 2019 11:50 a.m. PST |
Hey! Cavcrazy! You said that all rong!--"I TALKS english goodly!" (Take that, Grammarly!) TVAG |
David Manley | 20 Feb 2019 12:11 p.m. PST |
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JimDuncanUK | 20 Feb 2019 12:11 p.m. PST |
I look forward to good spelling and punctuation as it makes understanding what is being written easier. I do understand that some people have a different understanding and that there are others who may be using a language other than their first. I'm OK with that. |
Winston Smith | 20 Feb 2019 12:19 p.m. PST |
I used to be the official TMP, Grammer, and, Speling, Facscist. But it's too much work. I didn't even get paid for it! Even Apostrophe Abuse gets only a shoulder shrug today. Look what happened to Stannis Baratheon. He would have won the War if he hadn't spent so much time correcting "less and fewer". I was on his side, even to the extent of forgiving him for burning that sweet kid at the stake for his grammar policing. But it's the pedantic (How did that ever become a Bad Thing?) pursuit of language clarity that did him in. |
PrivateSnafu | 20 Feb 2019 12:24 p.m. PST |
@David Manley
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JimDuncanUK | 20 Feb 2019 12:37 p.m. PST |
Who's this Marley chap? Corrected, TY. |
Extra Crispy | 20 Feb 2019 1:09 p.m. PST |
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KeithRK | 20 Feb 2019 1:41 p.m. PST |
I don't point out people's grammar mistakes. I do silently judge them and reserve the right to not take their point seriously. |
Virtualscratchbuilder | 20 Feb 2019 1:42 p.m. PST |
Guess what the D- means……. |
Vigilant | 20 Feb 2019 2:16 p.m. PST |
Said it before, if you don't communicate properly you can't communicate effectively. Some of the stuff posted here and on other sites makes no sense because the writers use the wrong g words and bad grammar. Worse are people who seem to take pride in writing like this as if it is clever. I understand that English is not the 1st language for many people on the nets, but for those for whom it is to use it so badly that it is almost unintelligible is very sad. |
coopman | 20 Feb 2019 2:23 p.m. PST |
Well, it bugs me. I have a supervisor who apparently flunked spelling. |
Memento Mori | 20 Feb 2019 2:25 p.m. PST |
I agree with Vigilant that using correct grammar is essential for effective communication and a courtesy to your reader/listener. If a writer does not take the time to do a good proofread then why should we trust their message |
Soaring Soren | 20 Feb 2019 2:48 p.m. PST |
I run a Register of Deeds Office and everything that gets indexed has to be 100 % correct to be useful, searchable data. I don't expect Internet posts, however, to be that precise. [Edited to add a comma after "however."] |
robert piepenbrink | 20 Feb 2019 2:51 p.m. PST |
So now a Linguistics professor can not only assess personalities, but award them different values? She also misses a major point: the subjects were assessing people as housemates, and it is entirely possible that persistent bad grammar and spelling would make such people very bad housemates to those who noticed such things. |
surdu2005 | 20 Feb 2019 3:07 p.m. PST |
In my experience, people who routinely use poor grammar rationalize their lack of education by pretending it is unimportant. Grammar does matter. But in the US, where our schools are really about teaching you what to think instead of how to think, we pretend that poor math skills, poor communication skills, and poor critical thinking skills are a virtue, not a vice. This is why our educational system is almost last in the Western World. Poor skills are not a virtue. They are a sign if ignorance and a sign that you don't care about yourself or those to whom you are communicating. Let the flaming begin. |
Virtualscratchbuilder | 20 Feb 2019 3:35 p.m. PST |
A couple years ago I had a student tell me "I am insulted that you took points off for this stuff. If grammar, punctuation and spelling are all that important in this profession than [sic] I don't need this graduate degree"…. whereupon she withdrew from the university. |
21eRegt | 20 Feb 2019 3:48 p.m. PST |
I'm not proud of it, but I silently judge people who make spelling, punctuation and grammatical mistakes either from ignorance or by choice. I text, but I stubbornly refuse to take shortcuts. |
surdu2005 | 20 Feb 2019 3:48 p.m. PST |
My grandfather worked for Lea Iacocca when he was vice president of Ford Motor Company. Iacocca would take out a red pen and mark up correspondence from other executives that was sent to him. He would then send it back and take no action on the issue until it was corrected and resubmitted. His point: if you can't take the time to get it right for the number two man in the company, why should I think your issue, suggestion, or recommendation has merit. As a lieutenant, I was told by then Major Abazaid (later General Abazaid) that "you are your staff action cover sheet." His point was that for many officers many of the few times your senior rater (an important person in an evaluation report) might interact with you will be through your written correspondence. You should be careful that you communicate clearly, correcting, and succinctly, as that may form his opinion of you. When I was teaching computer science at West Point, I was teaching a class on artificial intelligence. I made all the cadets write a paper as part of the class. They thought they were just going to have to sling code and that writing a paper was cruel and unusual punishment. I told them that if I put three marks on the first page of their paper for grammar, spelling, or punctuation that they would have to correct the paper and lose a third of a letter grade for every day it was late. They didn't believe me until I turned back EVERY paper. It seems like taking the time to proof your work for a formal submission or asking your roommate to proof your paper was too difficult for them. My point to the class (and the department head when they complained to him) was that even if you are brilliant, if you cannot communicate that brilliance, it doesn't matter. Everyone gets in a hurry, and everyone makes mistakes. Good writing is about forming good habits so that you make fewer mistakes when you are in a hurry (on in a jet-lagged, sleep-deprived state as I am right now). It is those who revel in poor communications skills who mystify me. Buck (I am one who happens to be driven crazy by improper use of less, rather than fewer.) |
PJ ONeill | 20 Feb 2019 4:24 p.m. PST |
Most incorrect grammar doesn't bother me, but the constant misuse of- There, Their and They're. makes me stifle myself |
robert piepenbrink | 20 Feb 2019 4:32 p.m. PST |
Thank you, Virtualscratchbuilder! Please get rid of as many of them as you can. Back in grad school, one of my fellow GTA's had a student drop the class when he gave out the reading assignments on Day One. She told him she'd been attending the university for four years, had never had to read a book for a class and wasn't about to start. She was, of course, an education major. I figure by now she's retired from a really important position in some school system. Heaven knows I've met enough of her students. |
foxweasel | 20 Feb 2019 5:19 p.m. PST |
Being poor at grammar or uneducated may not necessarily be an individuals fault. There are plenty of intelligent people who's grammar is atrocious, a lot of people write how they talk. Laziness is a totally different matter, those people should be chastised severely for abuse of God's chosen language and people. I hadn't realised TMP had become the go to website for professors of English at Know it all University. |
gavandjosh02 | 20 Feb 2019 5:39 p.m. PST |
wow. 83 people is hardly a representative sample for anything. |
goragrad | 20 Feb 2019 6:29 p.m. PST |
In internet commentary grammar and punctuation may not be critical, but as noted mistakes can alter meaning or damage the credibility of the commenter. What was particularly sad were the various technical reports that I edited while working in civil engineering. Apparently top rated engineering schools no longer require that their students become proficient in technical writing. I had one English teacher in college who deducted a letter grade for each punctuation error in a submission while assigning a separate grade for quality of writing – often resulting in a 'A' for content, 'F' for punctuation. Those engineers I worked with would often have gotten 'Fs' on both counts as their grammar and punctuation errors made a mess of the content as well. |
surdu2005 | 20 Feb 2019 8:24 p.m. PST |
foxweasel: Being poor at grammar or uneducated may not necessarily be an individuals fault. There are plenty of intelligent people who's grammar is atrocious, a lot of people write how they talk. Laziness is a totally different matter, That is a good point. You should practice communications skills both verbally and in writing. You are correct that many people write as they speak. Sadly, many people's spoken English is atrocious, so their written English is little better, and often worse. It IS an individual's fault if they have bad communications skills and don't work to improve them. It is laziness. those people should be chastised severely for abuse of God's chosen language and people. That is unnecessary, typical TMP, snakiness. As was said earlier, you don't expect someone from Burkina Faso to speak English perfectly correctly. When I review conference papers for publication, I cut smart people who are not native speakers slack, knowing the editor will fix things before publication. I would, however, expect a native speaker of German, Urdu, or another language to use proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling in their native language. And by the way, I know many people for whom English is a second language who speak and write better than many people "educated" in our public schools. I hadn't realised TMP had become the go to website for professors of English at Know it all University. More unnecessary TMP snakiness. |
Winston Smith | 20 Feb 2019 8:25 p.m. PST |
Indifference to proper grammar and spelling is equivalent to indifference to clarity. If you don't care enough to express yourself clearly, why should I pay attention to what you wrote? |
surdu2005 | 20 Feb 2019 8:26 p.m. PST |
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Perris0707 | 20 Feb 2019 8:55 p.m. PST |
"Me fail English. That's unpossible." The Simpsons said it best. |
Zephyr1 | 20 Feb 2019 9:59 p.m. PST |
You can drive such people into apoplectic comas by tossing a copy of original Chaucer in front of them… ;-) |
foxweasel | 21 Feb 2019 2:15 a.m. PST |
More unnecessary TMP snakiness. Humour totally bypassed some areas when we civilised the globe, I see. |
robert piepenbrink | 21 Feb 2019 5:31 a.m. PST |
"wow. 83 people is hardly a representative sample for anything." Certainly, gavandjosh02. And I'll bet it was worse than that: they grabbed the first people they could get cheap on campus. One of the hallmarks of fuzzy science is the belief that their own graduate students are a perfect sample of humanity. Another is that they only publish results which agree with their own preconceptions. These are people who have a replication rate of around 50% and can't understand why no one pays attention to their "scientific discoveries." |
etotheipi | 21 Feb 2019 6:34 a.m. PST |
What's all this discussion about the English language, the guy who played Frasier, and bad science? Per the title of the thread, I would like to know what happened to my a jerk! |
pzivh43 | 21 Feb 2019 8:30 a.m. PST |
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USAFpilot | 21 Feb 2019 10:00 a.m. PST |
I think some of you didn't read the title of this thread. "Your a jerk", instead of "You're". It was an intentional mistake meant as a joke. Some of us posted in the spirit of humor. |
Winston Smith | 21 Feb 2019 2:49 p.m. PST |
Let's talk about what happens. I say "their" when I mean "there" or "they're". And then I say, "You know what I mean!" Possibly. But let's assume that every such incidence decreases comprehension by … 0.5%. Is the cumulative effect of such comprehension decrease exponential or additive? Let's make the same assumption about "less and fewer". Let's make the same assumption about ‘s being used for a plural, when it could mean a possessive. Let's go on to "I seen it happen!" Each instance of incorrect usage increases not only the annoyance of the reader but the possibility of being misunderstood. An old Chemistry teacher pointed out in his first class the dangers in misspelling chemicals, and the disasters that could occur. "That's why I deduct for spelling and grammar on the papers you hand in." I had students get indignant when I handed papers back all marked up. "This isn't no English class!" No it isn't. My professor just can't understand what you wrote. Neither can I. Imagine the poor AI program, which doesn't have a personality, trying to decipher your mess. Autocorrect is a good example. |
Virtualscratchbuilder | 21 Feb 2019 8:24 p.m. PST |
If I could say to my students what I wanted to say… When they write "I am disappointed in my grade. I do not think you actually read what I wrote." I would respond "You are correct. I did not read it because I could not read it. Your grammar and punctuation are so bad I gave up after the first paragraph.". |
Narratio | 22 Feb 2019 6:40 a.m. PST |
Poor grammar choice, sentence structures and random abuse of the poor comma I can handle. But I do find that bad spelling, like 'there/their/they're' and similar, breaks my chain of thought and my appreciation for what has been written. The worst cases being when it's in the middle of an engineering specification or scope of work that has to be translated into another language. That's Russian, Kazakh, Turkish and Korean in my current situation. If the writer does not get it right, how does the translator handle it? As a follow on – Correct spelling and punctuation allow the true meaning of your thoughts and ideas to be passed on to others. The discarding or demotion of these simple skill sets in recent years appears to parallel the rise of video instruction. I'm not sure if that's good or bad, but when you have to view a video on how to play a game (or assemble engineered equipment) instead of just reading the rules (or instruction book), I think an argument can be made that grammar, punctuation and spelling are necessary. After all, we old fogeys all smile at Phil Barker's rule writing, referring to it as "Barkerease". But is it that because he aims high with grammar selection while we're low in ability? Anyway Buck +1 |
Legion 4 | 22 Feb 2019 7:39 a.m. PST |
I've been called a jerk or worse and will be called similar in the future … As far as my spelling … with auto-correct it happens less to me. But sometimes it spells a word that I'm not trying to type … But my Ork is pretty good, however it drives otto-Korrek krazzy ! Also as I have found on the net. That usually there is always someone who disagree with you, is negative/comments about how you spell, think, what you post, say, do, etc., etc. It like Big Bro … but more like Big Jerk ! |
Oberlindes Sol LIC | 22 Feb 2019 12:00 p.m. PST |
I recently saw, and successfully resisted the urge to purchase, a very good tee shirt on this very subject. \ The text was to the effect of, "I don't judge people by their race, religion, or ethnicity. I do, however, judge them by their grammar, punctuation, and syntax." I do that. I don't usually share that judgment (especially in internet fora like this one), but it affects my viewer of the person. |
Oberlindes Sol LIC | 22 Feb 2019 4:39 p.m. PST |
You can see from the two errors above that I don't proofread my internet posts all that well, so it would be more hypocritical than I'm comfortable being to come down hard on others. |