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"Vehicle Colums of march" Topic


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Comments or corrections?

UshCha17 Feb 2019 5:54 a.m. PST

Proably only applys to 15mm and smaller scales where the number of vehicels are significant.

Just interested as we have after 10 years on done a review on our rules on thisd issue and the topics lately are a bit shy on interesting issues so here is one to thing about.

What drills do you apply to stop the colum normaly when it reaches its destination. Do you close up or stop at march distance. What spacing between vehicles and if being precise whgat spacing between units and why that spacing in each case.


Does your march spacing account for the size of the vehicle (could be 5 times it length due to groundscale to model scale distance) and tha face if its represents more than 1 vehicle that it could be in a single line.

What drill(s) do you invoke if its ambushed?

Typicaly what speed do you march at assuming in most cases you are not that far from the front (think hells highway type coloum).

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP17 Feb 2019 9:19 a.m. PST

What drills do you apply to stop the colum normaly when it reaches its destination.
Depend on where you are going and what you are doing. Sometimes you circle the "wagons", sometimes the vehicles go to predetermined positions. E.g. sometimes a "herring bone' formation is used along a linear position and/or road. And generally vehicles are ground guided into or in the location. By someone on the ground there and/or the truck's TC. Especially in darkness. And of course in a snow or sand storm, monsoon, etc.

The convoy/column is usually lead by a Convoy Commander, in a Jeep, HMMWV etc. With radio contact with higher HQ and sometimes a back packed radio was carried in some of the trucks. Based on availability, mission, etc. If you are hauling Grunts their PL and or PSG usually would have a back pack radio, e.g. PRC-77. Who would be in contact with the Convoy Cdr, etc.

Spacing/intervals varying based on terrain, time of day/light conditions and weather. Many vehicles have a light system one the front and rear of their vehicles. That shows if they are at the "proper" interval at night. Based on the designed used by the Germans in WWII. To keep proper station in a convoy. Which is about 30m. The NOTEK Light Night Driving System, also known as Station Keeping Lights. The US called it "black out drive". link We had it on our trucks, when I was on active duty '79-'90.

Does your march spacing account for the size of the vehicle (could be 5 times it length due to groundscale to model scale distance) and tha face if its represents more than 1 vehicle that it could be in a single line.
Not generally, the interval is again about 30m based on terrain, light conditions and weather. Just like on a dismounted patrol you don't want to have a break in contact. So again you have to see the trucks in front and behind. But is still sometimes happened. Sometimes we used chem lights at night, hung on the rear of the vehicle again based on the items I mentioned before. And situation of course.

What drill(s) do you invoke if its ambushed?
Again based on terrain and situation :

If possible -

Return fire.

Throw smoke grenades.

Speed up and fight thru the ambush. Keep moving out of the ambush.

Head to predesignated Rally Point(s), just like in a dismounted patrol.

Pull into cover/and or along side the road or trail. link

Herring bone along the road.

Note: if only carrying cargo. The only weapons the convoy may have is small arms of the Drivers & TCs. Plus some of the trucks mounted a .50 cal for AAA. But certainly was and could be used for convoy protection. A .50 or any MG will be a lot of help in an ambush.

Some convoys would be protected by some armored vehicles, or gun trucks. Some even may have an MP escort, but I never saw or had any.

Typicaly what speed do you march at assuming in most cases you are not that far from the front (think hells highway type coloum).
Again based on terrain, situation, time of day/light conditions and weather, speed would vary. But about generally 25-30 MPH.

At times all trucks were issued a copy of a map with their route(s) highlighted. And included Rally Points if a break in contact, if ambushed, if hit by FA, CAS, etc. And briefed all this before rolling out. Just like/was an Op Order …

Again –

Prior planning prevents poor performance.

Training, rehearsals, and experience …

UshCha17 Feb 2019 12:10 p.m. PST

I love this board you learn something new all the time. Thanks Legion the lights were something I did not know about!

The thing about spacing was really about on the wargames table where the vehicle is potentially bigger than the ground scale spacing.

Lion in the Stars17 Feb 2019 2:32 p.m. PST

If you're convoying in a place where roadblocks or booby traps are common, you want the lead vehicle with a dozer blade, or at least enough horsepower to make a hole for the rest of the convoy.

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP18 Feb 2019 9:37 a.m. PST

Glad to help UshCha …

If you're convoying in a place where roadblocks or booby traps are common, you want the lead vehicle with a dozer blade, or at least enough horsepower to make a hole for the rest of the convoy.
Yes, as I said some convoys have escort by armored vehicles. Dozer blade or mine plow would be good like on an MBT or CE AFV. As we saw with Blackhawk Down incident. Had a US relief column of e.g. a Ptl on MBTs and 2-3 Plts of APCs or IFVs. Maybe some mortar and or gunship support. With the MBTs in front. The Co Tm would do a "Thunder Run" with guns blazing. Running over anything or anyone in their way.

Rescuing the Rangers, DELTA and the chopper crews. And in turn killing off a lot of the enemy as possible as well. Collateral Damage would and should be expected. And that should not be your primary concern. If a concern at all. Saving you fellow GIs lives is Priority #1. Regardless of losses to the enemy and their supporters, etc.

UshCha18 Feb 2019 11:20 a.m. PST

Interesting nobody seems to have wargamed this sort of thing. I'm out on a limb as usual ;-).

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP18 Feb 2019 4:40 p.m. PST

Yes, I've done 1 to 1 scale wargames for this … evil grin

Wolfhag19 Feb 2019 10:40 a.m. PST

This would be something to look into:
PDF link

Pag 12 covers counter-ambush drills:
PDF link

Convoy Ambush Case Studies:
PDF link

"Interesting nobody seems to have wargamed this sort of thing."

Why? Mainly because "reality" sucks. Try spacing vehicles 25m apart when the model takes up 50m.

Wolfhag

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP19 Feb 2019 4:17 p.m. PST

Mainly because "reality" sucks
Yeah, if the ambush is done properly … it wouldn't be much of a game, generally …

Wolfhag19 Feb 2019 7:57 p.m. PST

During the VN era, we were told 75% of the causalities in an ambush happened in the first 2 seconds (I guess the amount of time to react and hit the deck). The only "safe" way to get out of the kill zone was to assault the ambush. If you ran you most likely ran into a secondary ambush, minefield or booby trap. We rehearsed that hundreds of times until it was second nature.

Wolfhag

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP20 Feb 2019 8:55 a.m. PST

We were trained the same. If the ambush 20m or less assault into guns blazing, yelling, etc.

And yes, train, practice, SOPs, etc. …

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP20 Feb 2019 12:13 p.m. PST

Due to ground scale/figure size issues, you are probably going to have to put your vehicles almost bumper to bumper in order to avoid the center point of the vehicles being 100+ meters away from each other, which is what is going to happen if you want things to "look right.'

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP20 Feb 2019 4:47 p.m. PST

Real scale vs. Game scale …

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