Ganesha Games | 15 Feb 2019 9:12 a.m. PST |
gum.co/PMnQZ The PDF edition of Of Armies and Hordes, the army level, area-based fantasy miniature rules by Ganesha Games is available on our store. 92 pages full color PDF with OpenOffice spreadsheet for army creation (more than 600 profiles included in the spreadsheet). The download also includes QRS and an Inksaving condensed version of the rules with no images. Paperback edition coming at the end of the month on lulu.com/songofblades these rules were MANY years in the making, I hope they will be well received. And send in your questions because we will be providing a free FAQ document later this month. |
Andy Skinner | 15 Feb 2019 10:00 a.m. PST |
Neat! Got some battle reports with pictures? andy |
Ganesha Games | 15 Feb 2019 10:42 a.m. PST |
not yet, I am living abroad at the moment and I do not have wargaming equipment with me |
Aethelflaeda was framed | 15 Feb 2019 12:45 p.m. PST |
Real reviews? Samples of mechanics, particularly magic? Any reason to buy it? What does it bring to the table that one can't get from 15 minutes of imagination and a pencil with SoBH? |
Ganesha Games | 15 Feb 2019 2:02 p.m. PST |
it's very different from SOBH -- it's an army level game, with area movement (no measuring) that lets you play with huge armies in 1 or 2 hours maximum. It's a game with a top-down approach and uses the activation and reaction mechanism from ASOBH but adds the idea of Pushing -- tiring your troops to gain additional actions. Magic is similar to other song titles in that only characters who are spellcasters can purchase spells as traits, and spells have wide effects on the tabletop. There are formations and flank maneuvers, challenges, champions, different types of leadership, scouting, assassination and thievery as campaign activities, etc. It was many years in the making and a lot of people have contributed their ideas and playtesting. |
Ganesha Games | 15 Feb 2019 2:08 p.m. PST |
One playtester published a few batreps here: link |
Ganesha Games | 15 Feb 2019 2:12 p.m. PST |
here he compares Of Armies and Hordes with my other ruleset Of Gods and Mortals, he refights the same battle and checks the differences between the two systems link |
Aethelflaeda was framed | 15 Feb 2019 4:36 p.m. PST |
Those bat reps were not terribly explicit on the play mechanics. Other than looking at the starting stats there is very little to justify buying these until I see a little more. It's not like I'm not interested, I have SoBH, Tales of BH and a few supplements. |
Ganesha Games | 16 Feb 2019 9:47 a.m. PST |
I will post some additional free materials in the next weeks, army lists and a FAQ document. As soon as I get home in April (I am currently abroad),I plan to make a small series of play-through videos. The mechanics, in general, are as follows: profiles created with a spreadsheet. The spreadsheet has 600+ ready profiles and you can tweak them troops have Quality , Attack, Defense and Traits Q works like SOBH, you roll 1 to 3 dice and use those activation to activate/move a unit the terrain is area based. Movement is 1 area per turn, but it may cost 2 actions in the case of rough terrain. there are over 20 terrain types in the game: forests, clear, steep hills, gentle hills, desert, swamp etc. Each area has its own rules to attack a foe, you move into its area and perform missile combat first and melee later (if needed, in some cases missile may wipe out the enemy) Missiles: you roll 1d every 2 stands, rounded down Melee: 1 die per stand, with monsters and giants rolling more dice as per their profile as units tend to be 4 to 12 stands (but can be anything from 2 to 16), you will need about 16 dice (d6) to play comfortably. the target number of a missile or melee attack is the target's Defense number. You add the attacker's Attack number to every die. For example, say a unit with A2 attacks a unit with D6. This means every die that rolls a 4 or better scores a hit (4 +2= 6, die roll + Attack score = tartget's Defense) Rolls of 1 are always faiulures and 6s are always successes, so there is always a chance to do something the unit that loses a clash must abandon its area and the winner keeps control of the area Leaders give rerolls (Discipline masters) or a flat +1 bonus to activation to the unit in their area A game is typically won by destroying 60% of the opponent's point value similarly to the skirmish system, morale is rolled in key moments of the game, such as when the general is captured or killed there are campaign rules. For example you may send thieves, assassins and spies on missions. Killed generals may be replaced by inferior quality commanders. Scouts can be very important because a scouting roll prior to the game determines in whose terrain the battle will be fought, and whether you can deploy ambushers and lurkers there is the usual plethora of special traits to create different troops. You have different levels of shooters, artillery, monsters, dragons. You can have mercenaries from other army lists. Formations in the game are represented by the way you put figures together. basically a unit can be close order, open order, column, horde. Each of these formations has movement and flanking advantages/disadvantages. For example hordes cannot be flanked but cannot flank. Flanking is represented in an abstract manner. As the table is an area table (each patch of terrain is a separate area) the units with a facing will have to face one side of the table. So for example if your unit is facing north and my unit is facing west, and I am charging from an area that is east of your unit, I MAY get a flanking bonus. Another tweak of this system is that units can be fatigued to get extra actions. For example, even if you roll no actions, you may decide to fatigue your unit (it will fight at -1 until it rests) and still be able to move one area. This becomes very important when navigating through broken and very broken terrain. I think that's all I can say, but if you have questions I can reply. |
Ganesha Games | 16 Feb 2019 9:50 a.m. PST |
it's important to understand that THIS IS AN AREA BASED GAME and IT IS NOT POSSIBLE to convert it to inches or measuring sticks. I am saying this because I had one gamer who purchased it in a rush and was disappointed because he dislikes areas. You need a way to mark areas. I cannot post photos here but the way I do it is to use a green and yellow plush cloth and mark area boundaries with green chalk. Some players use hexes, some use squares, I prefer irregular shapes. In fact, if you look at my table from a distance, many would not even notice that it is an area table. It looks like a (a bit too colorful perhaps) wargaming table. |
Ganesha Games | 16 Feb 2019 10:26 a.m. PST |
an additional clarification on the area system: different terrain types have a different Stacking number, that is, how many troops can fit in an area of that type. Clear areas (say, a large expanse of plain, a valley etc) have Stacking 16. It means you can fit the largest unit that it is possible to build in the game (16 stands). However, while this 16 stand unit in melee or missile is going to be formidable due to its numerical strength, it will be hard to maneuver with it, because a lot of areas will have a Stacking level of 8 (say, light woods or a gentle hill) or even 4 (rocky hill, dense woods, etc). Certain areas can be crossed only in column (say a road that goes through impassable terrain, such as a mountain path on the side of a cliff). Changing formation and splitting units costs actions, so it is up to the general to plan how to move his troops and avoid "bottlenecks" on the tabletop. |
Andy Skinner | 16 Feb 2019 5:38 p.m. PST |
Interesting. I have been using hexes for large skirmish type games. I wonder whether I'd like this. I didn't think I was interested in large battle. I'll read a bit. Some games seem to flow between scales. andyy |
Rottcodd | 16 Feb 2019 10:10 p.m. PST |
A quick question. I am a fan of several of your games, and am interested in this one. Most of my mini's are bases on square bases, 50mmx50mm usually, and some are on larger bases. Will bases this size work with the game? And is individual base removal a mechanism? or are entire units removed when routed? I've been playing To the Strongest, and love it, so a grid system is preferable. Thanks! |
Ganesha Games | 17 Feb 2019 1:56 p.m. PST |
Rottcodd, base style and size is totally irrelevant. This ruleset has "stand" removal, that is, for every hit, you remove one "thing" -- it can be a figure or a base. If your figures are multibased and you have a LOT of bases, you can treat 1 base = 1 stand. Otherwise, you just count each "head" on a base as 1 stand, and place a red die at the back of the unit to record outstanding hits. Square grid works fine, I prefer irregularly shaped (but roughly rectangular) shapes because they look more natural. Some of my players play on gridded mat or on hex-tiles (using he terratiles system) or, like me, on a "patchwork" table using chalk to separate areas of the same type (for example when you want to break up a large area of plains into 2 or more areas, you can just place a line of trees to separate them or a long thin bush, or just use a piece of lighter green chalk to draw a line between the two areas. Again, basing is irrelevant and square bases work OK (my 15mm are on square bases too, but for OAAH I normally use single based 28mm on trays, and remove 1 figure per hit). |
Ganesha Games | 17 Feb 2019 1:58 p.m. PST |
Andy Skinner, you could technically see a large battle as a series of separate skirmishes, one in each area where two units clash. |
Rottcodd | 17 Feb 2019 9:34 p.m. PST |
GG, thanks for your response, I will buy these when the print version comes out. |
Ganesha Games | 18 Feb 2019 11:15 a.m. PST |
link another detailed discussion with some comments (mostly positive, thanks goodness!) on Lead Adventure Forum. |
Ganesha Games | 18 Feb 2019 11:53 a.m. PST |
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Ganesha Games | 18 Feb 2019 11:58 a.m. PST |
link the PDF is now also available on WargameVault, you can read a lot of pages on the full-size preview so you can get the idea if this is the game for you. |
arthur1815 | 19 Feb 2019 4:58 a.m. PST |
I've just purchased mine from Wargames Vault at £7.75 GBP GBP – very good value. And no VAT, unlike the link given in the OP! The printer-friendly version is an excellent idea, but just goes to show how the current fashion for profusely colour-illustrated rulebooks inflates page count and prices of the latter. |
Ganesha Games | 19 Feb 2019 5:48 a.m. PST |
arthur1815 USA do not have VAT. Gumroad, however, pays VAT on behalf of the seller. I have no control over this, but as far as I know VAT depends on the country of the buyer -- so WGV should add VAT and pay it through their taxes if you live in a VAT country. I am planning to have an "essential" print version (in addition to a hardback color version that is spiral bound and will be printed in very limited quantities, and to a regular paperback version) that is text only and black and white so it can be sold at a lower price, but most people want to see photos of models etc because it gives them modeling ideas. And once you print a book in color, you are going to pay for color printing on ALL pages so it just makes sense to increase the page count a little and have more images (the final price is not affected much by the number of pages, as long as you stay under 100 pages overall). |
Aethelflaeda was framed | 19 Feb 2019 6:54 a.m. PST |
The pdf black and white sans image approach is my favorite format. The only thing better than a text only pdf, would be a .doc that I could edit to include my own house rules and alterations. My original copy of tales was a real pain in buttocks to edit, but old school referees like to tinker. Pdf to .doc translation is rife with font problems and table issues, but it remains better than pencil marks and line outs. Just so tantalizing close to be being, but not yet there, a DTP tinker's dream. Ever consider offering editable files as an alternative to .pdfs? |
Ganesha Games | 19 Feb 2019 1:19 p.m. PST |
Aethelflaeda was framed, my PDFs are not locked, meaning that you can extract the text. If you extract the text and then copy it to a txt file, it should strip all unwanted formatting. My editable files are in PagePlus, a legacy page layout software that not many use -- I write the books directly into that as I can't stand Word or its brothers. This is an experiment, I'll let you know if it sells any copies. I have the impression that most customers would prefer the illustrated book anyway. |
Aethelflaeda was framed | 21 Feb 2019 5:19 p.m. PST |
I tried the pdf inport to word but it created many tables (sometimes not) where tables shouldn't be and worst of all tended to combine page columns into single lines with a tab in the center…total chaos. I know that word isn't the best sort of program to do layout in (I was an old page maker dtp guy back in the day) but's the only software I have now. If you have suggestions I would love to hear them…I know it's not really conducive to hard copy sales but I can promise lots of pdf purchases if this was easy. Since I already know I plan to tinker with these mass combat rules to a measurement system. ( not a fan of area moves or only 4 facings for tactical battles) might as well get some pointers. |
sunjester | 27 Feb 2019 9:19 a.m. PST |
I've just picked up a copy and it looks really interesting. One thing I'm stumped on, and it might just be me being stupid, is how to cost troops that you create yourself. I see how the traits will increase/decrease the point cost but I can't see how to calculate the base point cost of a troop type. |
Ganesha Games | 28 Feb 2019 2:12 p.m. PST |
You have to copy all the cells from an existing profile and paste them in a new line, alter the Q A and D as desired, add or delete traits, and the new cost will appear in the yellow column. |
sunjester | 01 Mar 2019 3:09 a.m. PST |
Thanks, I'll give it go later today! |
Charles Green | 21 Mar 2019 3:27 p.m. PST |
Can someone post the unit point cost formula? The spreadsheet doesn't play nice with LibreOffice, and I'd like to figure out the cost for various things by hand. |