Editor in Chief Bill | 12 Feb 2019 7:36 p.m. PST |
Do you consider Memoir '44 to be a miniatures game? |
TacticalPainter01 | 12 Feb 2019 8:04 p.m. PST |
It is a game. It has miniatures. Who is confused? |
Rich Bliss | 12 Feb 2019 8:04 p.m. PST |
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Wackmole9 | 12 Feb 2019 8:12 p.m. PST |
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15mm and 28mm Fanatik | 12 Feb 2019 8:27 p.m. PST |
Yes. Then again, I consider counters in hex-and-counter games like 'Heroes of Normandie' to be flat miniatures also because they're better painted than some of the 3D miniatures I've seen. |
Mooseworks8 | 12 Feb 2019 8:43 p.m. PST |
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Grunt1861 | 12 Feb 2019 9:23 p.m. PST |
Yes. It was designed to be a miniatures game from the start. My friend Richard Borg has stated to me face to face that all of his Commands & Colors type games were designed to be played with miniatures. |
RittervonBek | 13 Feb 2019 12:02 a.m. PST |
Yes and it is how I am introducing my daughter to gaming along with Carcassonne. |
Lion in the Stars | 13 Feb 2019 12:05 a.m. PST |
It has miniatures in the box, doesn't it? |
martin goddard | 13 Feb 2019 12:39 a.m. PST |
People may define it as they wish. If it makes them happy to call it an elastic band, then fine. No sayers are unlikely to change their minds under any circumstances. Personally, I would call any game that uses miniatures a "minatures game". case in point; the big selection of PP gridded games are often deemed to be board games by some. Who cares? martin |
Lee494 | 13 Feb 2019 2:55 a.m. PST |
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Bezmozgu7 | 13 Feb 2019 3:39 a.m. PST |
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Bob in Edmonton | 13 Feb 2019 6:18 a.m. PST |
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Schogun | 13 Feb 2019 6:25 a.m. PST |
It's a board game that uses miniatures. Or…it's a hex-based miniatures game using hex tiles instead of a hex grid. |
mpanko | 13 Feb 2019 6:57 a.m. PST |
Miniatures…as much as any other table top game that represents the action with miniatures vs cardboard or sticks ala original kriegspiel |
Stryderg | 13 Feb 2019 8:13 a.m. PST |
It's a miniatures game played on a board instead of a table top. Therefore, it is a miniatures game, but not a tabletop miniatures game. Hmm, I would call it: A board, comprised of hexes, based, unpainted miniatures game concerning the fire, maneuver and command elements of war, game. They should print that on the box somewhere so as to avoid all this confusion. |
Andrew Walters | 13 Feb 2019 9:15 a.m. PST |
We must have the correct labels on everything! It's only a miniatures game if you argue about the correct color for a detail of the uniform. If no one accuses you of using the wrong shade of olive drab or feldgrau then it's just a dressed up boardgame. |
coopman | 13 Feb 2019 11:20 a.m. PST |
What difference at this point does it make? |
Andrew Walters | 13 Feb 2019 11:27 a.m. PST |
You must be one of those "a rose by any other name would smell as sweet" people. Silly five hundred year old misconception. It's vital to put things in the correct pigeonhole. |
javelin98 | 13 Feb 2019 12:14 p.m. PST |
So… would Command & Colors: Ancients not be a minis game, since it only comes with wooden blocks and stickers? |
USAFpilot | 13 Feb 2019 12:27 p.m. PST |
I think it is a "hex" game played with miniatures. But it really comes down to how you define "miniatures game". |
catavar | 13 Feb 2019 1:05 p.m. PST |
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Andrew Walters | 13 Feb 2019 1:20 p.m. PST |
But it really comes down to how you define "miniatures game". No, the question was "do you *consider* M44 to be a minis game?" Modern discourse has gone well past dictionary definitions. So, do you feel like it's a miniatures game? If the question depended on a given definition anyone could look at the game, look at the definition, and instantly see whether or not it fits. But I'm not sure we have a definition. Answering this question moves us toward a definition. So, to my mind, in order to answer it we need to know what is this definition *for*? It's hard to create a utilitarian thing like a working definition without knowing to what end it will be applied. I'm not trying to be a nuisance, I just feel like a lot of this sort of discussion happens in every area of discourse and people discuss the question without understanding the question and then it's down the rat hole of misunderstanding and all that follows. Not a troublemaker, really. |
Winston Smith | 13 Feb 2019 2:51 p.m. PST |
This only matters to someone with an obsession to classify things. |
Winston Smith | 13 Feb 2019 2:55 p.m. PST |
On Amazon:
From the manufacturer: "Memoir '44 is a unique historical game from Days of Wonder where players command a horde of little plastic Army men…." Well. There you go! It looks like a duck, quacks like a duck… |
USAFpilot | 13 Feb 2019 5:36 p.m. PST |
Ok then. My answer is "no", it is not a miniatures game. It is a hex game played with miniatures. |
Must Contain Minis | 13 Feb 2019 7:03 p.m. PST |
I consider Memoir 44 a Starter Miniatures game with the goal of getting more people into miniatures. I even painted my entire Memoir 44 collection. link
Visit my website for even more pictures of my collection. link |
ernieR | 14 Feb 2019 9:24 a.m. PST |
Must Contain Minis – i really wish i hadn't seen that ! now i feel guilty that i haven't painted mine . 1) i really like Memoir '44 . it may be my favorite WWII game . 2) i consider it a board game |
SeattleGamer | 14 Feb 2019 10:13 a.m. PST |
I don't really care either way, but I think of it as a board game. If a game only needs something in miniature to be considered a miniatures game, then Monopoly and Clue are also miniatures games. I have several versions of Risk,a nd my oldest has wooden cubes, which are miniature representatives of armies. But other versions actually have miniature soldiers, etc. And since you spread the game board out on (almost always) a "table", then all of these could then be called tabletop miniatures games. Which I think is absurd. So for me, generally, if it has a board then it is a board game. If it has no board, and/or is intended for play on a tabletop mat with terrain and miniatures, it is a tabletop miniatures game. Examples: 40K = Tabletop Miniatures Game Blood Bowl = Board Game |
15mm and 28mm Fanatik | 14 Feb 2019 10:52 a.m. PST |
One could argue that a tabletop is simply an extended game board writ large, with 3D buildings and terrain instead of hand- or computer-drawn representations. Some games, like Battletech, use board game elements like hexagonal tiles on the tabletop. Andrew Walters is correct though in that whether Memoirs '44 is a miniature game (note that the OP never said "tabletop") or not depends on how broad (or narrow) one's definition is. Mine tends towards the former. |
USAFpilot | 14 Feb 2019 12:13 p.m. PST |
The difference is in movement. Board games have precise movement areas in a grid, or hex, or otherwise. Movement/maneuver enters a grey area in tabletop miniature games. Think in terms of digital vs analog. Chess played with finely painted miniatures is still just chess, not a miniatures war game. And I say this as someone who likes board games for that very reason. |
15mm and 28mm Fanatik | 14 Feb 2019 12:59 p.m. PST |
Movement/maneuver enters a grey area in tabletop miniature games. Not really. In tabletop games, movement and firing distances are well defined (even when modified by restrictive terrain features) as they are in board games, just not by grid squares or hexes. That's where rulers and tape measures come into play. No rulers or tape measures are used in board games because the grids and hexes already have a defined distance. Board games simplify the distances of tabletop games. They are two sides of the same coin. |
Uesugi Kenshin | 14 Feb 2019 5:54 p.m. PST |
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Lee494 | 14 Feb 2019 8:39 p.m. PST |
Regardless of whether you call it a Board Game, Minuatures Game, Tabletop Game or even a Card Game or a War Game, it's not going to make ANY difference in who buys it or plays it … you really think if you decide it's a Board Game and not a Miniatures Game that half the people who own it are going to say OMG I thought I was playing miniatures and throw it out??? SO WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE??? OMG! |
Editor in Chief Bill | 14 Feb 2019 9:00 p.m. PST |
Chill out there, bro. |
USAFpilot | 14 Feb 2019 10:21 p.m. PST |
@28mm Fanatick, maybe not the best choice of words on my part by saying "grey" areas, but I have found that maneuver can get really complicated with tabletop wargames. Even though rules may read clearly, often when playing, situations develope in regard to troop movements that get rather fiddly. Many situations can cause confusion, such as when the end base of a long line of bases from a single unit contacts a physical barrier which blocks its path. Does the entire unit stop, or does just the one base stop? Most rules don't allow bases of a unit to split off from the unit. Many many fiddly situations can come up with moving bases on a non-gridded tabletop. |
etotheipi | 15 Feb 2019 10:56 a.m. PST |
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Aethelflaeda was framed | 15 Feb 2019 1:03 p.m. PST |
If I got invited to come over to play miniatures, and Memoir 44 got pulled out I would probably laugh, and play it anyway. If they pulled out the old AH WSIM or Tobruk I wouldn't laugh at all, even if they called it a boardgame. No one calls Risk a miniatures game. |