coolyork | 12 Feb 2019 1:27 p.m. PST |
Now that some time has gone by sense the introduction of TMWWBK rules , I was wondering what everyone thought ? I have read the rules and see no good reason for me to change from TSATF to TMWWBK ! There not terrible ,there just not some new great system that re-invents the wheel ! Thoughts ? |
Nick B | 12 Feb 2019 1:53 p.m. PST |
If it weren't for (IMO) the excrutiatingly drawn out and clunky hand-to-hand combat mechanism I would prefer TSATF. I'm also not a fan of losing so many figures during the charge move to a random die roll. But whilst there are no earth shattering new mechanisms – the speed of TMWWBK, quick scenarios and the fun personalisation of officers makes it a much better club night pick up game (IMO). |
Chairtwosqueaky | 12 Feb 2019 2:05 p.m. PST |
I have played both. Like the men who would be kings a bit better. I must say that the D6 better than the D20 most likely because my old eyes cant see a d20 from far away! |
Ney Ney | 12 Feb 2019 2:38 p.m. PST |
If you don't want to change over then why would you! Like TSATF? keep playing them. Simple! I like TMWWBKs a lot. But why change if you don't think you do? Crazy idea – you could own both an play both when you fancy!! |
Winston Smith | 12 Feb 2019 2:43 p.m. PST |
The hand to hand combat system in TSATF is NOT "clunky". If you want to play with 600 figures per side, which it was never designed to do, you deserve it. |
Ragbones | 12 Feb 2019 3:01 p.m. PST |
I've changed over from TSATF to TMWWBK because most of my games are larger than what the former was designed to handle. Since I built my Colonial armies originally for TSATF it's no problem to convert to the smaller unit sizes in TMWWBK. I also enjoy using an unpublished set of home made rules created by Tim Wright and inspired by TSATF called Sand and Blood. Tim used to regularly run French Foreign Legion games at HMGS East conventions and they were always a lot of fun. |
Gone Fishing | 12 Feb 2019 3:23 p.m. PST |
I agree with Winston that the hth system in TSATF is not clunky; as he points out, the trouble is so many of us built bigger armies than the rules were really meant to handle. The sweet spot for TSATF is probably about 2-3 Imperial units, with perhaps a gun and cavalry unit, against 7-10 Native units – much bigger than that (and trust me, I'm guilty!) and it breaks down. Ragbones, you were kind enough to send me the Sand and Blood rules and I agree they are great! I've never seen TMWWBK rules so can't say much more than that. I do think Mr Mersey is one of the most talented rules writers out there, however, so it doesn't surprise me they are good! |
The Virtual Armchair General | 12 Feb 2019 3:43 p.m. PST |
And let us not forget that "800 Fighting Englishmen" as the Battalion Variant to TSATF eliminates all problems when it comes to fielding many more units than the original supported. Written by the Immortal Sergeant Himself, they are the perfect way to run a table-groaning weight of figures with all that's best and beloved of TSATF, but stripped down to the essentials. Available from the Publishers here: sergeants3.com/index.html TVAG |
Winston Smith | 12 Feb 2019 4:31 p.m. PST |
Here's a writeup for an 800FE game we had last Saturday. TMP link Each Zulu had 3 "battalions" of 6 stands of 4 in his "brigade". So 4 or 5 guys each had 72 figures. You move and fire by "brigade". Hand to hand is by stand, not figure. Usual expected modifiers apply. 800FE really streamlines the basic beloved TSATF structure. The game took around 3-1/2 hours to play. With basic TSATF, it would have taken much longer with that amount of figures. Go ahead now and put 700 Dervish on the table with 800FE. We tried that a few times with TSATF. It was indeed a slog. |
coolyork | 12 Feb 2019 8:29 p.m. PST |
Thanks everyone so far ! Its always interesting to see peoples opinion of competing rules . NEY NEY I didn't say I wanted to change rules ,I was just interested to see how people felt about the two rules now that TMWWBK has been around for a little while ? |
bandrsntch | 13 Feb 2019 12:15 a.m. PST |
Have played both and like TSATF better. In the games of TMWWBK games the natives had an extremely hard time of it and were easily massacred. There just wasn't enough terrain for them to be able to attack.The firepower was overwhelming. So my impression is that with TMWWBK, one has to be really careful with the scenario setup and there just isn't enough info in the rules to be able to do that. after playing it a few times, one should be able to tweak the setup and terrain to give a decent game, but even then I think TSAATF is more fun. |
aegiscg47 | 13 Feb 2019 7:54 a.m. PST |
I've found that TMWWBK is emblematic of most of the Osprey rules in that they're pretty much for gamers who don't want to paint a lot of figs! We sometimes have 6-8 players for our TSATF games with each player running 2-3 units and the rules work fine. |
coolyork | 13 Feb 2019 9:06 a.m. PST |
I have been running Flame games for years with an average of 200 to 400 figures on the board and have never had a problem . I understand the draw to new rules and of course TSATF has not been that easy to acquire outside the the US except via mail . We've all seen rules come and go and we will wait and see if TMWWBK rules can stay relevant . The good thing for sure is the King rules and some new line of figures out there have brought in a whole new bunch of folks playing Colonial games ! Carry on ! |
Nick B | 13 Feb 2019 10:42 a.m. PST |
@Winston Smith – clearly you have never played TMWWBK or probably even read the rules. The games are no larger than the TSATF games suggested here. It'd also a lot more polite to add – "IMO" to your statements as rules are very much in the eye of the beholder and yours is NOT the definitive opinion (IMO). |
Winston Smith | 13 Feb 2019 11:37 a.m. PST |
@Winston Smith – clearly you have never played TMWWBK or probably even read the rules. The games are no larger than the TSATF games suggested here.
I was comparing TSATF with 800FE. You are very astute, and correct, in assuming that I have never played TMWWBK. But that has absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote. Have a nice day. |
coolyork | 13 Feb 2019 1:55 p.m. PST |
The great thing about the internet is we can discuss things like this simultaneously around the world . The bad thing about the internet is we can't hear the tone or see the facial expressions of the each other . Im sure if we where all sitting around in a Bar/Pub talking about the pros and cons of these rules it would be much more congenial ( well maybe ) . Cheers |
SgtGuinness | 17 Feb 2019 9:01 a.m. PST |
Here, here, coolyork, well said old chap! The fact that TMWWBK is brining more people and mfgr companies into the colonial fold is a win for us all. See you at the pub my friend! No really, which pub, when are you coming south? We have a game on 23 Feb. I'll send you the 2019 game schedule. Cheers, JB |